Why is there such disappointment over Wilco(The Album)?

[choo-choo-charlie]

I saw that. Consider this your warning.

 

 

very well done.

 

Thanks for acknowledging my lame pun. My father loved puns and passed on the appreciation to me...I can't help it.

[Basil II]

For me, I'm just not connected with the band in its current state. I remember listening to Kicking Television and thinking, this just isn't the Wilco I fell in love with. Don't get me wrong, I'm still a huge fan and loved SBS and wore W(TA)out when it came out, but at the end of the day it is too ..............something, too.....just so. I blame the lineup. Too much talent can become predictable. I'll take Jeff's songwriting, Jay B's sloppy quirkiness anyday over the current polished noodling.

 

I agree with this sentiment exactly.....

 

-Robert

[explodo]

Because we heard their other albums first? It's a bad record. Contrary to some folks, I think it would be even if it had been their debut. But disappointment is necessarily preceded by expectations, expectations are created by history.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

One Wing is a great song, but they should have kept the original version that they played live for while before the album was released. The one with the really long and intense instrumental part at the end.

 

Pat really played some geetar on the original live version, but I got the impression that it was a "I don't know how to end this one boys. Take a solo Pat".

[The High Heat]

I wouldn't listen to WTA if it didn't have Jeff Tweedy's voice on it. On the other hand, it's the Wilco album I listen to the least. Fortunately I'm not a strictly album listener. I love to cherry-pick songs from every album and make my own playlists. WTA doesn't give as much to choose from and its songs make my cut list decisions easier.

[lamradio]

Pat really played some geetar on the original live version, but I got the impression that it was a "I don't know how to end this one boys. Take a solo Pat".

 

I know, it just seems kind of cut off on the album... Like they still didn't know how to end it, so they just... ended it.

 

They could have polished up the intense guitar freakout ending.. But that's just my 2 cents.

[wheelco]

I wouldn't listen to WTA if it didn't have Jeff Tweedy's voice on it. On the other hand, it's the Wilco album I listen to the least. Fortunately I'm not a strictly album listener. I love to cherry-pick songs from every album and make my own playlists. WTA doesn't give as much to choose from and its songs make my cut list decisions easier.

that is very similar to my approach and how I feel ...

 

as someone who hasn;t been around these parts in a while, I'll just give my 2 cents without going back to read this whole thread -- I think it was a nice, safe little album with a few good songs, nothing horrible and nothing risky, not bad but not memorable

[choo-choo-charlie]

So who's going to listening to the stream of the new record when it arrives -- assuming that will happen? Since I didn't first hear Wilco until 2005 -- and I started with A.M. and went forward from there, Sky Blue Sky was the first "new" album I'd heard by them, and I opted to close my ears to its online presence until the vinyl arrived at my house. I made an "occasion" out of the first listen. On the other hand, I "spun" W(TA) quite a bit from the stream before its release. I can't decide what I'll do for the next album.

[froggie]

Not to hijack this thread, but more people should note the key change from the Bb live versions to the G major album version of What Light.

 

IMO the Bb version is way way nicer.

 

 

 

 

i can listen to that debut version from somewhere in Canada in 2006 over and over.... and i do

[MarkyMark77]

I like all the albums. I don't think W(TA) is terrible, or that SBS is boring. But...

 

...like all songwriters, Mr. Tweedy needs an editor, a springboard, whatever you want to call it. Bennett was a check and balance through YHF. Perhaps Jeff had something to prove of AGIB (because of Jay's exit), which provided an accountability on the songwriting and production. Like a lot of great songwriters who achieve a certain status, they create a band, and indeed a life, where there is no one left to tell them "no".

 

I think the more mainstream, almost syrupy songwriting of "I'll Fight" and "You and I" could have been offset by some rougher production. They seem almost pedestrian and the arrangement exposes the weakness of the songwriting. "My Darling" is a song of a similar ilk, yet because of the arrangement and instrumentation, it creates an ethereal atmosphere that detract (in a good way) from the almost insipid lyric.

 

Being a songwriter, I can say that you can't really help what you write. Most of the time, it just happens: you don't choose the song. But, the question is, what songs do you let through the gate, and what songs do trash?

 

Check out both versions of "Spiders (Kidsmoke)". There really isn't to much going on with the actual melody: an "A" part, four lines of simple melody, and cryptic lyric, a "B" part that doesn't appear until the end, but there still isn't much going on there: a melody confined to four notes, and no "lift", and no real chorus. And yet, and I totally dig both versions of the song, as do most of you, from what I can discern. But the arrangements in both versions aren't mainstream pop. One is Krautrock, the other folk. Both are a little polarizing, in the best possible way: it forces you to react. I think the disappointment in some of W(TA) is that it doesn't challenge the listener, and most Wilco fans want the challenge. I don't have to react to "You and I". I can listen to it while I do the dishes. And maybe that's the problem.

[realrival]

You know I've been listening to Wilco on shuffle and Wilco(the song) came on followed by Radio Cure and it occurred to me that the Wilco that sings "Do you dabble in depression?" and promises to love me if I do isn't the Wilco I'd turned to if dabbling in depression. Radio Cure Wilco is where I would go, which kind of makes the whole Wilco(the song) Wilco(the album) Wilco(the band) thing more funny to me.

 

I think a case could be made for Wilco(the album) being the most daring album yet because Wilco always seemed to be most comfortable when they were uncomfortable, if that makes sense. I also think that this album feels a lot less Tweedy to me. Before I'd say something like "Wilco, well Jeff Tweedy, is cool" or Jeff Tweedy is awesome and the other guys are okay too. The good thing about that is they really do feel like a band on this album. The songs are fun and smart for the most part. I like most of them, they're great rock songs. But I can see what some people are saying about not being able to connect emotionally to the album. I think another reason why this album could be called the most daring is because the narrative content of the lyrics is different. I never get the sense that Tweedy's trying to work something out for himself in his head like I did when he sang IATTBYH or Company in my Back or whatever. He doesn't seem emotionally connected to the material at all, with maybe the possible exception of Country Disappeared. He's playing roles. It's as if he's saying, 'hey they're just songs' and I think that really works for the Wilco(the album, song, band) theme. I think it's funny and fun. And it doesn't stop the songs from being good songs. In this album more than the others he seems focused on singing rather than emoting. I think the writing is just as strong as the other albums (rhyming hill with mill aside); it's just that Tweedy isn't spilling his guts to us, or maybe it's more correct to say it doesn't sound like he's spilling his guts to us (since we can't really be sure his mind was filled with silvery stuff or that he assassinated down avenues).

 

I know I got into Wilco because I had a lot of stuff going on in my life, and was anxiety-ridden/major depressive and it definitely helped to feel like someone else was going through the same thing (Radio Cure was my favorite song for months and I was like, 'Oh Jeff Tweedy, you're the only one who understands!') But I have to remember Jeff Tweedy is under no obligation to make me feel better by being similarly miserable. And if Wilco wants to put out a sunny, fun record (someone on here called it a summer album, which is a great description) then I can deal with that, and really like it and hope that the next one will be different. Not because the album is bad, but because different is what I expect from Wilco and what I love about them.

[Guest Speed Racer]

He doesn't seem emotionally connected to the material at all, with maybe the possible exception of Country Disappeared. He's playing roles. It's as if he's saying, 'hey they're just songs' and I think that really works for the Wilco(the album, song, band) theme.

 

He said in an interview that he was trying to write third-person songs, and songs from someone else's point-of-view, on this record - something he acknowledged he'd never really done before. Bob Dylan can make that work, Johnny Cash can make that work, tons of other people can make that work and still seem emotionally evocative, but I don't think Jeff made it work on this album. He's always been at his best when he writes about his own perspective, in my own opinion. While I can understand wanting to expand your craft, I don't think he's as good at writing from another perspective yet. If you don't seem emotionally connected to your songs, even if they're not about you, you're doing something wrong.

[smells like flowers]

But I can see what some people are saying about not being able to connect emotionally to the album. I think another reason why this album could be called the most daring is because the narrative content of the lyrics is different. I never get the sense that Tweedy's trying to work something out for himself in his head like I did when he sang IATTBYH or Company in my Back or whatever. He doesn't seem emotionally connected to the material at all, with maybe the possible exception of Country Disappeared. He's playing roles. It's as if he's saying, 'hey they're just songs' and I think that really works for the Wilco(the album, song, band) theme. I think it's funny and fun. And it doesn't stop the songs from being good songs. In this album more than the others he seems focused on singing rather than emoting. I think the writing is just as strong as the other albums (rhyming hill with mill aside); it's just that Tweedy isn't spilling his guts to us, or maybe it's more correct to say it doesn't sound like he's spilling his guts to us (since we can't really be sure his mind was filled with silvery stuff or that he assassinated down avenues).

 

I was thinking along these same lines today... about where I was in my life when when earlier Wilco albums came out and how the emotional elements of the songs hit home (for example, being in a long-distance relationship, madly in love, and listening to "At My Window, Sad & Lonely" or whatever that song is called on Mermaid Avenue pt 1.) Yes, the songs on WTA don't have much of an emotional impact and they don't feel like Jeff is pouring his heart out. I guess that encapsulates what drew me to Wilco, and kept me there over the years... the immediacy of the lyrics, and feeling some (imagined, I admit) connection to the songwriter's vulnerability. Also, when the lyrics feel like poetry (as in, "in my fragile family tree") rather than being delivered in an utterly straightforward way. (This has also been discussed at length on this board.)

 

I'm hoping that the new record has some content that will help restore my connection to the band -- but maybe we're all just growing up?

[The Inside of Outside]

So who's going to listening to the stream of the new record when it arrives -- assuming that will happen? Since I didn't first hear Wilco until 2005 -- and I started with A.M. and went forward from there, Sky Blue Sky was the first "new" album I'd heard by them, and I opted to close my ears to its online presence until the vinyl arrived at my house. I made an "occasion" out of the first listen. On the other hand, I "spun" W(TA) quite a bit from the stream before its release. I can't decide what I'll do for the next album.

Listened to a leaked cassette tape of Being There before it came out - that was the last one I listened to before the release. Don't think I'll break that streak now - I'll wait for the release. Old fashioned (or just old) I guess.

[bourbonbreath]

one wing is a classic... besides that i could care less if i never hear any of these songs again. bull black nova sounds forced. i'll fight and sonny feeling all sound like studio throwaways. they ruined the groove of you never know with all the i don't care anymore refrains. after 8-10 listens i was ready for the next record. that has never been the case before and i have purchased all of the wilco records on day 1 of their release sans a.m. i listened to a ghost is born last night and it sounded as fresh and new as it did 6-7 years ago. i still have the same affection for sky blue sky as well. cannot wait for the new record.

[DiamondClaw]

I think the more mainstream, almost syrupy songwriting of "I'll Fight" and "You and I" could have been offset by some rougher production. They seem almost pedestrian and the arrangement exposes the weakness of the songwriting. "My Darling" is a song of a similar ilk, yet because of the arrangement and instrumentation, it creates an ethereal atmosphere that detract (in a good way) from the almost insipid lyric.

I don't think the songwriting on "I'll Fight" is syrupy or weak at all. In fact, I think they are some of the most biting lyrics Jeff has ever written, when you look beneath the surface of the cheesy "I'll go, I'll go..." part. And I think that's the point of the song- I find it very clever. I do agree the arrangement could use some work, personally I just think it is a case of too many cooks in the kitchen. The acoustic riff is great, but maybe the stripped down Jeff/John/Leroy/Glenn era Wilco would have delivered a less polished, more gritty performance of this song. But from a lyrical point of view, I think it is stellar.

 

 

Check out both versions of "Spiders (Kidsmoke)". There really isn't to much going on with the actual melody: an "A" part, four lines of simple melody, and cryptic lyric, a "B" part that doesn't appear until the end, but there still isn't much going on there: a melody confined to four notes, and no "lift", and no real chorus. And yet, and I totally dig both versions of the song, as do most of you, from what I can discern. But the arrangements in both versions aren't mainstream pop. One is Krautrock, the other folk. Both are a little polarizing, in the best possible way: it forces you to react. I think the disappointment in some of W(TA) is that it doesn't challenge the listener, and most Wilco fans want the challenge. I don't have to react to "You and I". I can listen to it while I do the dishes. And maybe that's the problem.

I love the original version of Spiders, and really like the AGIB version, and I agree with your descriptions- the arrangements make that song (both versions) by being creative and evocative. However, a song like "You and I" can still carry meaning and be enjoyable even if it isn't as "challenging". I like the challenging stuff, but I don't expect Jeff to write an entire album of wall to wall challenging material, especially if it's naturally/organically not forming that way.

[Kalle]

I think I'll Fight is really misunderstood.

 

I know a lot of people that just thought it was about a girl or a relationship, but I think it's a fantastic way of looking at a soldier's role in fighting for his country, and done in a really non-corny way. Top notch lyrics by Jeff IMO.

 

However, I will agree that I really like Jeff a whole lot more in first person lyrics, as probably majority of us will. Writing songs in the third person are really really tough and Jeff does it well but I definitely agree in thinking that's really one of the main reasons why a lot of us feel disconnected with WTA, we don't get a whole lot of Jeff on the album or his thoughts/feelings/emotions, and isn't the main reason we love Wilco so much is ultimately because of Jeff?

 

It should be noted that even though we feel that WTA has a lot less Jeff I know Nels has definitely stated in an interview that WTA is "most certainly a Jeff record".

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

I know I got into Wilco because I had a lot of stuff going on in my life, and was anxiety-ridden/major depressive and it definitely helped to feel like someone else was going through the same thing (Radio Cure was my favorite song for months and I was like, 'Oh Jeff Tweedy, you're the only one who understands!') But I have to remember Jeff Tweedy is under no obligation to make me feel better by being similarly miserable. And if Wilco wants to put out a sunny, fun record (someone on here called it a summer album, which is a great description) then I can deal with that, and really like it and hope that the next one will be different. Not because the album is bad, but because different is what I expect from Wilco and what I love about them.

 

I have said this before, and I firmly believe it.

 

An artist makes music for his/her/their enjoyment. Once they put the music out there,they have no control over how it is perceived. Artists don't own how we hear it and we, the audience accept the music or don't.

 

Jeff was an angry young man. then a depressed older man and made edgy music. He found a co-dependant enabler who egged him on. Now, he seems to be happy and wants to make music that is happier.

He is writing about what he is and feels, just as he did 20 years ago. And, for all the good and bad, Jay was in the band for all of 5 years. It has been twice that long since YHF. That, and Jay being dead should be enough for the fans to move on.

 

He's gotten healthy, has a wife and family he loves and has a killer band. Life is good. He is writing us postcards from his life. It was once life on the edge. Now it's postcards from home. His evolution is somewhat akin to what Springsteen experienced in the middle stages of his career sans the mega-hits.

[Guest Speed Racer]

That, and Jay being dead should be enough for the fans to move on.

 

As evidenced by the legions of Beatles fans who stopped caring in the 80s.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

All that being said, I don't hate W(TA) or feel extremely disappointed in it. But, by the same token, I don't listen to it much. The one Wilco record that has consistently kept my interest and challenged me as a listener is A Ghost is Born.

 

YHF (or Young Henry Frank as I call it...the NATO phonetic alphabet album title is a bit too militaristic for my taste) sounds sleepy, druggy and depressed to me. If Jim O'Rourke lessened the noise on his mixdown, can we all be honest with ourselves and say that it must have been a real mess. Majestic? Sure. But, to my ears, time hasn't been very kind to it. It's a bit like Wilco's Sargent Pepper, better in theory and memory than in actuality. That's not to say that I don't revere that record. I revere and respect it, I just don't love it any more.

 

As evidenced by the legions of Beatles fans who stopped caring in the 80s.

 

Apples and Tangerines. Jay wasn't John to Jeff's Paul. Not by a long shot. Jay was Robbie to Jeff's Bob.

[Guest Speed Racer]

But Jay's death doesn't mean we have to 'move on' from Wilco, whatever that even means. Even bad albums don't. The next Wilco album could be a fifty-two minute take on Leave Me Like You Found me and that wouldn't sully anything I love about the band.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

But Jay's death doesn't mean we have to 'move on' from Wilco, whatever that even means. Even bad albums don't. The next Wilco album could be a fifty-two minute take on Leave Me Like You Found me and that wouldn't sully anything I love about the band.

 

No...move on from the angst ridden homolies to Jay. Once he was terminated from the band, there was no going back. No going back for Jay (to the band) and no going back for Jeff (sharing musical inimacy).

[cryptique]

Jeff was an angry young man. then a depressed older man and made edgy music. He found a co-dependant enabler who egged him on. Now, he seems to be happy and wants to make music that is happier.

He is writing about what he is and feels, just as he did 20 years ago. And, for all the good and bad, Jay was in the band for all of 5 years. It has been twice that long since YHF. That, and Jay being dead should be enough for the fans to move on.

 

He's gotten healthy, has a wife and family he loves and has a killer band. Life is good. He is writing us postcards from his life. It was once life on the edge. Now it's postcards from home. His evolution is somewhat akin to what Springsteen experienced in the middle stages of his career sans the mega-hits.

I'm glad that Jeff's life has settled down and that he's found some happiness in it. But if his music is now going to be "postcards from home," I, as a fan, really will "move on" ... to some other band.

[Doug C]

"The bar clock says three AM..." Oh wait, home, not hell.

[tinnitus photography]

Jay was Toby to Jeff's Bob.

 

fixed.