The Whole Love -- Some Perspective

[bleedorange]

Obviously this is only based on a few listens to a web stream, but it has more to do with Wilco's career than anything. At this point, Wilco is 16 years and 8 albums into its career. If you want to include Tweedy's time with Uncle Tupelo (after all, Wilco did rise from the ashes), that adds 5 years and 4 more albums.

 

What were other highly-regarded bands doing at this point in their careers?

 

R.E.M.'s eighth album was Automatic For the People, but they released things more quickly. The timeline has them around Up or Reveal.

 

U2 was putting out Zooropa and Pop in a similar time frame. Drive-By Truckers' career arc is fairly similar to Wilco's. There are others, but I can't research all day. (The Rolling Stones were in the middle of their greatest run by the time of their eighth album in a different time of album release frequency, but after 16 years were making Emotional Rescue and Tattoo You.)

 

I guess my point is that what should our expectations really be for this band. I had a discussion with a friend of mine who wasn't that impressed with the new album, saying that they've already made better versions of each of these songs. Is that a fair comparison to make? Should we expect greatness at this point or just something solid to add to the catalog of a great band that has just gotten older?

[junkiesmile]

I wasn't expecting it to be as great as it is. I'm just pleased I have another album to add to my favorite Wilco albums list.

[Ghost of Electricity]

I think part of the excitement around here is a collective sigh of relief that the downward trend from YHF>AGIB>SBS>W(TA) has been broken. I think many people feared they were "done."

[!goose!]

At this point I think we owe this band at least some blind elegance. However, If we we are making an REM comparison, I sort of got the same feeling about WTA and this record as I did when I heard Monster and every record after that.

[-seven]

I was just having a conversation like this last night...about the career path of the Stones/Replacements and a few other bands coincidentally. We pretty much came to the conclusion that we felt Wilco's best songwriting days are behind them but that the band has never performed better live.

 

I'm enjoying this new record a lot but if I wasn't already a die-hard fan, I'm not sure that this would make me into one.

 

Also, I didn't feel like this until now, but I'm also starting to have a lot more appreciation for Bennett's contributions to the band.

[BeatDogg]

I think part of the excitement around here is a collective sigh of relief that the downward trend from YHF>AGIB>SBS>W(TA) has been broken. I think many people feared they were "done."

For many fans that arrived at Wilco a little later in their career (i.e. me), the "downward trend" that you mention does not exist. When I discover a mature band that I admittedly should have been listening to from the start, I find my favorite albums/songs don't line up with those of long time fans. Many long time fans of any band write about the decline of albums over time. That first album from a band that really turns you on will always have a huge impact on everything released afterward. I recently went through this same exercise with My Morning Jacket.

 

For me, despite many negative comments on the forum, SBS is a phenomenal album. I was told about YHF by many of my music loving friends when it came out, but I never got into it even with repeated attempts. I cannot explain why, I love YHF now. Somehow SBS just did it for me and I've been a giant Wilco fan ever since. My faves right now (prior to TWL) in order are: Sky Blue Sky->YHF->Being There->Summerteeth->AM->AGIB->WTA. But I consumed most of that music at one time, so there was no previous favorites to alter my preferences. And, BTW, just because WTA is my least favorite Wilco album does not mean that i don't like it. Its just not as good as the others, and the margins between them are very small anyway.

 

Having said all that, I am digging The Whole Love. Its a sample platter of their entire career if you ask me. Some experimental stuff, some pop songs, some folky stuff, some indie rock leaning stuff... a little bit of everything But what holds this album together better than WTA (also a sampler platter IMO) is the consistent quality throughout. I mean, I like every song so far and have a few that might make it into my all time faves. It is a very good album.

 

My 2 cents...

[junkiesmile]

I hear a lot of Bennett in this album and I think it's their strongest set of songs since YHF. I already like this album better than AGIB. I'm not sure I agree that their best songwriting is behind them.

[wilconut]

What downward trend? I get that SBS wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I don't see it as less good or inferior in quality than the others. Sure, WTA, in my humble opinion, isn't a very good album in the sense of a cohesive statement. Some of the songs are catchy and fun, but that's about it. However, SBS really hangs together as a record--a motiff, a statement, a message, whatever you want to call it.

 

I just sometimes find it funny that folks are willing to listen to and praise a seven minute guitar/noise jam, but something like Walken or Hate It Here, smart and wonderfully arranged rock songs, are dragged through the gutter.

[mpolak21]

I just sometimes find it funny that folks are willing to listen to and praise a seven minute guitar/noise jam, but something like Walken or Hate It Here, smart and wonderfully arranged rock songs, are dragged through the gutter.

 

In the case of those two songs specifically I think the lyrics are what turn people who are not fans of them off. I agree Walken's arrangement is great, I love the solo guitar break and then everyone else coming back in behind it.

[bleedorange]

I guess the original question does kind of presuppose the fact that these later albums mark some kind of decline. I certainly wouldn't dream of putting SBS and WTA (and probably TWL) in the same ballpark as the other Wilco albums, and based on the thread ranking the albums, I figured the general consensus was the same.

 

I didn't want this to be a discussion on what albums were better, but a legitimate discussion on how much quality you can expect from a band after 16 years. No band is as good at this stage of its career arc, so what are the proper expectations?

[Shakespeare In The Alley]

To throw out another long running band that remains at or near their peak abilities, my favorite band, Super Furry Animals, is a bit older than Wilco and released their 9th album in 2009. I put it very near the top of their discography, and a lot of other fans would agree. At a certain point it's hard/impossible not to hint at sounds you've already covered as a band, but that doesn't mean new material can't still compete with the time tested classics of the earlier years.

[LouieB]

I guess the original question does kind of presuppose the fact that these later albums mark some kind of decline. I certainly wouldn't dream of putting SBS and WTA (and probably TWL) in the same ballpark as the other Wilco albums, and based on the thread ranking the albums, I figured the general consensus was the same.

 

I didn't want this to be a discussion on what albums were better, but a legitimate discussion on how much quality you can expect from a band after 16 years. No band is as good at this stage of its career arc, so what are the proper expectations?

Really. From a couple listens this is a really good album from a really good band, which shows a modicum of originality, plays to the bands strengths, and has enough enough to keep us interested and not pissed off. For a band approaching 20 years in business what else can you expect? Everyone in the band sounds great (particularly John, although Nels particular style seems submerged), the songs are good, the singing is great, there is enough pathos to keep people moved, there is plenty to keep the Radiohead fans on board, plenty for the dads, nice effects and keyboards (the ghost of Jay Bennett), etc. Its going to sell great, inject some new songs into the set lists and keep both new and old fans talking for a year or so. Good job all around.

 

LouieB

[dmhphoto]

But it hasn't been 16 years of the same people in the band. These 6 guys have been together since 2004.

[u2roolz]

I think it's a bit unfair to think that their "best" song writing days are behind them. I'm not sure why people tend to think that. Will Jeff Tweedy stop having life experiences to write about?

 

The same goes for filmmakers, but it is a bit different. Auteurs like Martin Scorsese and Steven Spielberg have produced some of the best commercial films in the past 30 years. Can you label some of these films in certain ways? Sure. You could easily apply the "Mafia" label to Scorsese. So what happens to him when he pulls a Kundun or Bringing Out The Dead. Half of the people cry out for the next Goodfellas, while the other half love the exiting of the possibly self made comfort zone.

 

And I certainly think that those 2 guys still have the ability to make great films. I'm not sitting at home thinking that they're all done. And most importantly, I'm hoping that they dictate what they decide to do next and not fans.

 

EXPECT NOTHING

EXCEPT NOTHING

BUT THE BEST

[JAK2112]

Radiohead's 7th Album, roughly 15 years into their career was In Rainbows

Pink Floyd's 10th Album, also around 15 years in, was The Wall

 

There's no reason to think that just because Wilco is done creatively just because of how much time they've been around and how much material they've released. Personally, after listening to TWL quite a few times, i think it's easily in Wilco's top 4 albums, probably top 3.

 

The fact is, even if TWL isn't Wilco's best album, the fact that most bands probably won't ever make an album close to as good as that speaks to how many strong albums Wilco has in it's catalogue, and I'm certain they have at the very least a few more good ones left to make.

[!goose!]

hmmmm.... were we all having this discussion with YHF? BTW was it Pat that bought the Glockenspiel?

[dark]

First I think TWL love is a GREAT GREAT album even at low quality mp3 levels ... the production is excellent and Pat should be commended the songs are very diverse and it reminds me of a Beatles album ..I have said several times here that I consider myself fortunate to have gotten into Wilco later in their careers so I dont have the baggage of living in the past ... on some level I understand that from the long time fans but in the end I like when artists mature and its reflected in their songwriting .... my only negative feeling about the album is Standing O doesnt do anything for me

[sonicshoulder]

Has anyone ever considered the notion that fans expectations are changing more than the band?

[Ghost of Electricity]

Will Jeff Tweedy stop having life experiences to write about?

 

 

To a certain degree yes. Note that over the last two records "I" has often stopped referring to "Jeff Tweedy" and started referring to "the guy who just killed his girlfriend" or "the dying soldier" or "Jane Smiley's boyfriend." This is something that didn't happen (or if it did only rarely) on earlier records. It's a new direction in his songwriting, and on this record did it better than on the last one, which would imply that he's learning more about how to do that. Which actually portends well for us Wilco fans, as he won't be limited to writing about one middle-aged balding guy with an expanding waistline.

[SeattleC]

 

Which actually portends well for us Wilco fans, as he won't be limited to writing about one middle-aged balding guy with an expanding waistline.

 

Ouch~! (from both Jeff and me)

[jff]

Tom Waits Rain Dogs.

[TheMaker]

Obviously this is only based on a few listens to a web stream, but it has more to do with Wilco's career than anything. At this point, Wilco is 16 years and 8 albums into its career. If you want to include Tweedy's time with Uncle Tupelo (after all, Wilco did rise from the ashes), that adds 5 years and 4 more albums.

 

What were other highly-regarded bands doing at this point in their careers?

 

R.E.M.'s eighth album was Automatic For the People, but they released things more quickly. The timeline has them around Up or Reveal.

 

U2 was putting out Zooropa and Pop in a similar time frame. Drive-By Truckers' career arc is fairly similar to Wilco's. There are others, but I can't research all day. (The Rolling Stones were in the middle of their greatest run by the time of their eighth album in a different time of album release frequency, but after 16 years were making Emotional Rescue and Tattoo You.)

 

I guess my point is that what should our expectations really be for this band. I had a discussion with a friend of mine who wasn't that impressed with the new album, saying that they've already made better versions of each of these songs. Is that a fair comparison to make? Should we expect greatness at this point or just something solid to add to the catalog of a great band that has just gotten older?

 

I think that's exactly what we should expect at this point. In the real-time reaction thread, I mentioned that most bands have a ten-year window in which to forge their most memorable and creative efforts. TWL certainly plays like something from the back half of Wilco's catalogue (read: it's an enjoyable, lightweight record with a lot of elegant arrangements and smart writing, but nothing that's going to rewrite the book on rock music) but it's a damned sight better than their last disc. That's enough to make me happy.

[mpolak21]

hmmmm.... were we all having this discussion with YHF? BTW was it Pat that bought the Glockenspiel?

 

No, Glenn's had one in his percussion arsenal for awhile.

 

--Mike

[-seven]

I think it's a bit unfair to think that their "best" song writing days are behind them. I'm not sure why people tend to think that. Will Jeff Tweedy stop having life experiences to write about?

 

Actually rather than to say that their best songwriting days are behind them, I should have said that maybe I'm just now realizing that I prefer the songwriting and the musical contributions of the previous Wilco lineup (pre 2004). There have been some great songs from the post 2004 lineup as well, but the depth is not there for me on many of them.

[rhino4evr]

If wilco ever breaks up, Im sure Jeff will continue to write and perform music. It's not all about the flash to me, in general he writes great folk songs. I don't think that will ever change.