Politics 2016 (election edition)

[KevinG]

Thinking about this, I am not sure this will really affect Trump. This is a man who said he could shoot someone and not lose voters. For those of us on the left, it points to what an asshole he is ( which we already knew), for his supporters they knew what an asshole he is, embraced or ignored that part (because of his stance on guns, tax policy, boarder security, etc.) these comments are not going to change many people's minds.

 

Only three weeks and this is over.

 

Genius move by whoever put this out there, especially at the same time some of Clinton's Wall Street speeches were leaked. No one is talking about that.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Thinking about this, I am not sure this will really affect Trump. This is a man who said he could shoot someone and not lose voters. For those of us on the left, it points to what an asshole he is ( which we already knew), for his supporters they knew what an asshole he is, embraced or ignored that part (because of his stance on guns, tax policy, boarder security, etc.) these comments are not going to change many people's minds.

 

Only three weeks and this is over.

 

Genius move by whoever put this out there, especially at the same time some of Clinton's Wall Street speeches were leaked. No one is talking about that.

 

Yep. Honestly, I hope Hillary and her advisors are smart enough to spend very little time on this during the debate and default directly to "I want to focus on making life better for the American people."

 

Watched this video this morning, and it's downright depressing seeing Trump supporters - regular folks - continue to defend him: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-37599788

[lost highway]

Thinking about this, I am not sure this will really affect Trump. This is a man who said he could shoot someone and not lose voters. For those of us on the left, it points to what an asshole he is ( which we already knew), for his supporters they knew what an asshole he is, embraced or ignored that part (because of his stance on guns, tax policy, boarder security, etc.) these comments are not going to change many people's minds.

 

Only three weeks and this is over.

 

Genius move by whoever put this out there, especially at the same time some of Clinton's Wall Street speeches were leaked. No one is talking about that.

 

I disagree.  I see how your thinking describes a large percentage of his base, but it doesn't describe every potential voter. It's easy to be disheartened by the aggression and blow-hard ignorance of the people at his rallies, but they're a minority.

 

Trump won the primary with roughly 40% of the republican vote.  That means that 60% of the republicans did not have him as their first choice and face a difficult decision. Sure, some decided immediately and no leaked tape will convince them otherwise, but even an ambivalent 10% of the base creates a landslide on a traditional election map with a typical 45%/45% split of entrenched Dems and GOPs .

 

Right now Trump is sitting at around 43% of the popular vote according to aggregated polls, with Clinton edging towards 50.  With the exodus of Republican leaders from the Trump stump we are likely to see those numbers enhanced. If the election were today Trump would have no chance of winning Florida and little chance of winning Iowa.  It doesn't take much of a turn to start putting nails in the campaign coffin.

 

This may be very premature, but I feel there's likely a renewed "What is the Republican Party?" conversation about to occur for the third time in 12 years. I suppose even in the unlikely event of a Trump win, it would still be a conversation. They've tried putting social conservatism at the front, and the American people didn't back it (Palin, Walker). Perhaps Romney was just not charismatic enough, but a moderate fiscal conservatism didn't seem to capture America's imagination either (as much as I believe it is the much needed other half of our political dialogue). It would seem populist/nationalist xenophobia can't stick a landing either.

 

I think what the republican party needs is a libertarian perspective that is ironed out with a little moderate, everyman charm. They need a newer more hopeful face, I think it will always be about cutting taxes, but perhaps it can also be about cutting corruption and protecting individual freedoms.

[Vacant Horizon]

The democrats have such a huge chance to actually do something to unite this country.  Not sure what it would be.  I'm pessimistic though.  Special interests and drones win every time.  

[dagwave]

what a train wreck. it feels like possibly the lowest point in the history of American politics. Ugh.....

[KevinG]

what a train wreck. it feels like possibly the lowest point in the history of American politics. Ugh.....

If there wasn't a full month of baseball playoffs I would want it to be November

[The Inside of Outside]

Agreed. I watched just over 5 minutes of Debate #2. I am embarrassed to live in a country that has these two as the final candidates for President. As an educator, it is clear that Trump's behavior is worse than a kindergartener. No teacher would put up with it from 5-year-olds, so why do the moderators? Seriously, if a candidate interrupts, you give them a warning that they will lose their alloted time. If they interrupt again, they lose some time to speak. If they keep doing it, they lose more. After the fifth time or so, you give a final warning. The next interruption, you remove the candidate from the stage for 10 minutes.

 

I realize Trump would never agree to such a thing, but if I were a candidate against Trump, that would be in my list when they hammer out the rules. If he doesn't agree to those rules, then don't debate him.

[brownie]

I managed to slog through the first 25 minutes and then I had to turn it off. I could not believe I was watching candidates for president of the United States. Horribly offensive. It wasn't even fun to watch for its outrageousness. It was just sickening, and an embarrassment.

[tinnitus photography]

what was so disgusting about Hillary's debate performance? I thought she was dignified and actually answered some of the questions.

[Doug C]

what was so disgusting about Hillary's debate performance? I thought she was dignified and actually answered some of the questions.

I agree. I am baffled by the false equivalency, but it won't die. She answered poorly re the email server and that Abe Lincoln thing was rather Trumpesque, but on the outrageous, sickening and embarrassing metrics, there's no comparison.

[Winston Legthigh]

For the people who buy Trump's lines about Hillary having a lot of hate in her heart - how does that jibe with a long career full of advocating for children's rights? I guess that would make sense if she's only advocating for them just to fatten them up so she can eat them later...

 

Or, for the people who hate Hillary because she's a liar? Look, I know we're always searching in vain for Diogenes's Honest Man, but if lying is the hill that you're going to die on, I'm pretty sure Trump's not your champion either. 

[KevinG]

I agree. I am baffled by the false equivalency, but it won't die. She answered poorly re the email server and that Abe Lincoln thing was rather Trumpesque, but on the outrageous, sickening and embarrassing metrics, there's no comparison.

 

I completely agree.  If this was a debate between Hillary and any other of the Republicans who ran it would be completely different.  But I believe Clinton's style, demeanor, substance, would remain relatively unchanged.  The only reason this debate is so sicking and embarrassing is because of Trump.  Ever since he thrust himself on a national stage he has been deplorable.  

 

The one thing that really was shocking in the whole debate is when Trump said when he was elected that he would appoint a special prosecutor and throw her in jail.  Which right there should give anyone who is think about voting for Trump pause.  He clearly does not know how our legal system or the office of special prosecutor works.  I know his pick for AG (Chris Christie) already had his mock trial at the Convention, but it just does not work that way.  Even if you think Clinton is guilty of whatever with her emails you just can't vindictively throw people in jail.  This is the man who wants to be in charge of the Executive Branch of government.  Through the course of his campaign, he has shown he does not have a fundamental grasp on what that is or what that means.  Even if you disregard his racist, xenophobic, misogynistic statements look at his approach to the law and the constitution.  I don't think he could pass a 6 grade civics class, let alone understand the intricacies of our legal system.

[Winston Legthigh]

Which right there should give anyone who is think about voting for Trump pause.  

You do realize that they sell "Hillary for Prison" paraphernalia at Trump events, right? You think those people are going to pause to reflect on due process? 

[Mr. Heartbreak]

I don't think he could pass a 6 grade civics class, let alone understand the intricacies of our legal system.

I've been saying this for months now, or some version of it. I have no problem with the guy running for mayor, or city council, or even governor of a state...you gotta start somewhere. But he has no business being anywhere near the Oval Office. For that reason alone, I think the people who have supported him and egged him on really are deplorable.

[KevinG]

I've been saying this for months now, or some version of it. I have no problem with the guy running for mayor, or city council, or even governor of a state...you gotta start somewhere. But he has no business being anywhere near the Oval Office. For that reason alone, I think the people who have supported him and egged him on really are deplorable.

 

It is at a time like this, I really wish Hixter was back.  Early on, he mentioned he supported Trump, mostly because of Clinton's stance on guns.  (I mean, yeah she is looking to close the gunshow poophole, but I think we all can agree to that.)  I honestly wonder if he still feels the same after the recent comments, or what has transpired in the months he made his choice known.  Unfortunately, the right leaning, vocal minority, has been silent the last few weeks.  It is a shame, as I often times disagreed with them, at least they kept things honest around here and took Clinton to task (which is important).  But more importantly, I really wish I could get their thoughts now, if a President Trump is still better than a President Clinton and why.  

[John Smith]

There are rumors that Pence is going to quit soon

[Lammycat]

Is either candidate actually convincing voters that are "on the fence" to side with them? Are there that many voters that are actually "on the fence"? It seems like they just solidify their base and tick off their opponent's base more so with each debate, ad on t.v., blurbs in the press.

 

It's pretty amazing to me that a candidate that has zero office-holding political experience can be where he is today (a step away from the White House) but hey, that's the country we live in. 

There are rumors that Pence is going to quit soon

I wonder if his feelings were hurt last night when Trump said (sic): "I haven't talked to him and I disagree with him...."

[Doug C]

. 

I wonder if his feelings were hurt last night when Trump said (sic): "I haven't talked to him and I disagree with him...."

See for yourself.  http://www.npr.org/2016/10/10/497380686/pence-sticks-with-trump-praises-running-mate-in-post-debate-tv-appearances

 

edit  This is better. 5 minute MSNBC interview. He's good, I'll give him that. I'm willing to bet that he showered after. http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/after-distancing-himself-from-trump-pence-goes-back-to-defending-him/ar-BBxferb?li=BBnb7Kz

[John Smith]

Behind the scenes vs in front of the cameras. Anyhow it was CNN reporting and they seem to f'up quite a bit.

[tinnitus photography]

It is at a time like this, I really wish Hixter was back.  Early on, he mentioned he supported Trump, mostly because of Clinton's stance on guns.  (I mean, yeah she is looking to close the gunshow poophole, but I think we all can agree to that.)  I honestly wonder if he still feels the same after the recent comments, or what has transpired in the months he made his choice known.  Unfortunately, the right leaning, vocal minority, has been silent the last few weeks.  It is a shame, as I often times disagreed with them, at least they kept things honest around here and took Clinton to task (which is important).  But more importantly, I really wish I could get their thoughts now, if a President Trump is still better than a President Clinton and why.  

 

just my theory, but i guess hot button conservative topics like abortion, gun rights, military spending etc trump all, even in the (orange) face of blatant boorishness, racism, sexism and utter descipability.

[lost highway]

I agree. I am baffled by the false equivalency, but it won't die. She answered poorly re the email server and that Abe Lincoln thing was rather Trumpesque, but on the outrageous, sickening and embarrassing metrics, there's no comparison.

 

I'm with you, that played so poorly.  It was probably the first time where I laughed with Trump on something.

 

And then I found the full excerpt from the transcript in question.  She ACTUALLY was talking about Abe Lincoln.  Amazing.

 

In the end it's probably more important how something looks, than what it truly is in this game.

[KevinG]

I freaking love Alex Jones.

 

Hillary Clinton and Obama are actual demons.  

[jff]

I am truly baffled by the uproar. The guy has a recorded history of referring to various women as pigs, dogs, and slobs. He publicly referenced Megyn Kelly's menstrual cycle as "blood coming out of her wherever." He went on and on about how Miss Universe Alicia Machado got fat, and called her "disgusting." These were not ancient comments like on that tape...they were recent!

 

Then you add in all the other stuff - calling Mexicans rapists, saying a Mexican judge should recuse himself from his case because he's planning to build a wall, suggesting we stop allowing Muslims coming into the U.S., making fun of a disabled reporter - but this is the dealbreaker? Umm...okay.

 

You honestly don't see a difference between name calling (being impolite) and describing an action (committing a sex crime)?  The difference is not baffling at all.

[Winston Legthigh]

You honestly don't see a difference between name calling (being impolite) and describing an action (committing a sex crime)?  The difference is not baffling at all.

I think the point is: "But you guys were OK with him through everything he's done and said up until now?"

 

Personally, I'm not baffled by the uproar, but like others have said: "Took ya long enough..."

[jff]

I think the point is: "But you guys were OK with him through everything he's done and said up until now?"

 

Personally, I'm not baffled by the uproar, but like others have said: "Took ya long enough..."

 

If by "you guys" you mean some of the the fringe GOP, then that is a valid point.  But the way this conversation, and similar conversations elsewhere, have been going, it seems as if folks are asking why this is the final straw for people in general.  The truth is, virtually all Democrats and a large number of Republicans have been outraged by Trump's earlier statements about Mexicans, Muslims, women, etc.  Enough so that Clinton, entirely rightly, called some of his supporters a basket of deplorables. That has been a pretty high profile piece of news since she said it.  So, to suggest there hasn't been large scale outrage across the board is factually incorrect.