The like, newest new election thread

[Party @ the Moontower]

i give a lot of credit to people who turn out and try, but often wonder why the mass dissatisfaction with our involvement in iraq hasn't moved more people to organize and become a real and cohesive voice.

 

Thanks to the Patriot Act and the Bush Administration you can be labled a terrorist for speaking out against the war or calling for impeachment. Following that line you will see groups and people targeted that advocate peace, a healthy planet, organic farming, alternative and holistic living and treatment, animal rights, pot, hemp use, freedom of religion, free speech, anything concerning racism, woman's rights....etc.

 

After seeing Palin & McCain follow the Bush trend of fear with the use of the "T" word this week against Obama, I really have more concerns than ever about those 2. They are now calling students & at the universtiy of Il. where Ayers teaches, future terrorist. How lovely the fear BS works on the American people.

[sweetheart-mine]

This is why 'messianic/charismatic' politicos scare me:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...on-YouTube.html

 

sure. you can find many more dangerous zealots supporting other causes/candidates/"values," though -- during the early years of the bush administration, for starters. the blind following the blind in halls of congress before the iraq invasion and for most years after? the "young republicans" groups that produced the reptilian likes of karl rove? dick cheney? ever taken a good long look at blackwater? at least that you tube video is most likely political propaganda produced by obama's "opponents." the other stuff is actually real, unfortunately.

 

 

 

 

People are generally disattisfied with the war in iraq however not disattisfied enough to hit the streets. The main reason is that the toll in American lives is not as high as Vietnam and there is no draft so there is little chance of you getting killed in the war if you choose not to participate. In the 60's if you choose not to participate you still had to go. Hence the protests.

this is true.

 

 

 

Thanks to the Patriot Act and the Bush Administration you can be labled a terrorist for speaking out against the war or calling for impeachment. Following that line you will see groups and people targeted that advocate peace, a healthy planet, organic farming, alternative and holstic living and treatment, animal rights, pot, hemp use, freedom of religion, free speech, anything concerning racism, woman's rights....etc.

 

After seeing Palin & McCain follow the Bush trend of fear with the use of the "T" word this week against Obama, I really have more concerns than ever about those 2. They are now calling students & at the universtiy of Il. where Ayers teaches, future terrorist. How lovely the fear BS works on the American people.

 

this is true.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

I wonder how much John McCain paid to make that video.

 

 

LOL

 

I am always brought back to an uneasy feeling about all this.

 

McCain is 'erratic' and Obama seems too willing to embrace this messianic air that has arisen around him.

[JUDE]

Although I wouldn't necessarily call myself a McCain defender (rather, more of an Obama opposer), I've got Texas-OU weekend that I'm focusing most of my attention on this week. You know, priorities.

 

 

You are either with Obama or you are a McCain supporter/defender/neocon/fascist.

[Good Old Neon]

This is why 'messianic/charismatic' politicos scare me:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...on-YouTube.html

 

The current best example being Palin

[quarter23cd]

After seeing Palin & McCain follow the Bush trend of fear with the use of the "T" word this week against Obama, I really have more concerns than ever about those 2. They are now calling students & at the universtiy of Il. where Ayers teaches, future terrorist. How lovely the fear BS works on the American people.

It remains to be seen, however, how much this "works" this time around. I think the comments above about the relative lack of protest during the course of the Iraq war are telling. Iraq, to anyone not directly connected to it by being there or having loved ones there, has been sort of a nebulous threat. A dangerous situation that we have, by and large, witnessed from afar in the absence of an issue like the draft. The Bushies did a good job of integrating it into the general "terror" theme (even if proven to be not connected), which was the commanding issue of their administration. Everything revolved around terror because it is an effective means of control. Polls going the wrong way? Ratchet up the threat level. Cause enough worry to make people start second-guessing themselves. It worked, over and over again.

 

I don't know that it will work this time. The financial meltdown is more immediate and tangible to the average American--we can directly see the effects when we check on our 401K balance. We see businesses failing. People are freaked out about losing their jobs because of it. There is no magic threat level to manipulate this time. I mean, its still there, but it doesn't have the same gravity because it isn't most people's most immediate concern. Distraction by means of bogeyman is going to be less effective this time, I predict. I could be wrong, but I think McCain/Palin look ridiculous right now. "WTF?" seems to be the general vibe I'm feeling. Partly because all the crap they're launching against Obama right now is stuff that has already been publicly examined and largely dismissed during the primaries. Palin acting like she just discovered this stuff is a little ridiculous. (although, in her case, maybe she did just hear about it for the first time)

 

I also don't buy into the "messianic" theme about Obama--either the supportive or dismissive case, since both exist. Yeah, there are some rapturous supporters. I don't understand them any more than I understand the people who think any politician or pundit out there has all the answers. I haven't been one of the Obama-as-savior people, but have been gradually won over by him to the point that I'm comfortable with the idea of him representing me at the highest level of government. I don't think he's a messiah, but at this particular point in time I would welcome my refrigerator as a national savior if it could manage to get more votes than McCain.

 

This thing has gone beyond ugly, and still has several weeks to go. There was a time in this election cycle when the thought of a McCain presidency, while not my preference, at least didn't scare the crap out of me. That is long gone.

[bleedorange]

It remains to be seen, however, how much this "works" this time around. I think the comments above about the relative lack of protest during the course of the Iraq war are telling. Iraq, to anyone not directly connected to it by being there or having loved ones there, has been sort of a nebulous threat. A dangerous situation that we have, by and large, witnessed from afar. The Bushies did a good job of integrating it into the general "terror" theme (even if proven to be not connected), which was the commanding issue of their administration. Everything revolved around terror because it is an effective means of control. Polls going the wrong way? Ratchet up the threat level. Cause enough worry to make people start second-guessing themselves. It worked, over and over again.

 

I don't know that it will work this time. The financial meltdown is more immediate and tangible to the average American--we can directly see the effects when we check on our 401K balance. We see businesses failing. People are freaked out about losing their jobs because of it. There is no magic threat level to manipulate this time. I mean, its still there, but it doesn't have the same gravity because it isn't most people's most immediate concern. Distraction by means of bogeyman is going to be less effective this time, I predict. I could be wrong, but I think McCain/Palin look ridiculous right now. "WTF?" seems to be the reaction I'm hearing. Partly because all the crap they're launching against Obama right now is stuff that has already been publicly examined and largely dismissed during the primaries. Palin acting like she just discovered this stuff is a little ridiculous. (although, in her case, maybe she did just hear about it for the first time)

 

I also don't buy into the "messianic" theme about Obama--either the supportive or dismissive case, since both exist. Yeah, there are some rapturous supporters. I don't understand them any more than I understand the people who think any politician or pundit out there has all the answers. I haven't been one of the Obama-as-savior people, but have been gradually won over by him to the point that I'm comfortable with the idea of him representing me at the highest level of government. I don't think he's a messiah, but at this particular point in time I would welcome my refrigerator as a national savior if it could manage to get more votes than McCain.

 

This thing has gone beyond ugly, and still has several weeks to go. There was a time in this election cycle when the thought of a McCain presidency, while not my preference, at least didn't scare the crap out of me. That is long gone.

 

 

It does reek of desperation. But, the thing is, it just might work. Or work enough to swing enough close states. At this point, it's all McCain has left. They're not going to "win" over any more voters so they need to "scare" away as many voters as they can.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...-treatment.html

 

After reading the abovd, I have two questions.

 

1. If true, why did he feel the need to do it? Rampang ageism. Maybe McCain should follow suit.

 

2. Why is it an issue? Why are all these peripherals an issue? Sarah Palin hunts moose. Joe Biden gets Botox injections.

 

These silly issues distract us from the larger matters at hand. We have become a nation of silly, unsubstantial people concerned with silly, unsubstantial matters. If Abraham LIncoln was running today the media would be focusing on his physical unattractiveness, him nutty wife and the whipserings about his rumored homosexuality. FDR? How can a cripple run the country. His wife is his second cousin and homely to boot. Doesn't he have a mistress...?

 

 

Taxes will have to be raised (in some fashion...) and Spending will have to be cut (in some fashion...)

 

Afghanistan will have to be reinforced (Obama and McCain both know the drill here.) Iraq will be left to its own devices sooner or later.)

 

Health Care will need to be addressed actively (we've been pussyfooting around the issue for too long)

 

Government action and sponsorship will be needed to cut dependence on oil and encourage alternative energy sources.

 

A woman's right to choose will NOT be taken away. Didn't happen under Reagan, didn't happen under W...ain't gonna happen.

[mountain bed]

Nice post, Crow. That's some straight talk.

[Basil II]

These silly issues distract us from the larger matters at hand. We have become a nation of silly, unsubstantial people concerned with silly, unsubstantial matters. If Abraham LIncoln was running today the media would be focusing on his physical unattractiveness, him nutty wife and the whipserings about his rumored homosexuality. FDR? How can a cripple run the country. His wife is his second cousin and homely to boot. Doesn't he have a mistress...?

^^^amen to that....

 

 

 

I'm reading Friedman's "Hot ,Flat and Crowded" right now.......and it is spot on. we need a national focus....such as a green revolution. coalescing us to a greater purpose than vapid consumerism and entertainment escapism....

 

 

-Robert.

[Party @ the Moontower]

It does reek of desperation. But, the thing is, it just might work. Or work enough to swing enough close states. At this point, it's all McCain has left. They're not going to "win" over any more voters so they need to "scare" away as many voters as they can.

 

 

Your absolutely right. Unfortunately, some Americans do buy into that jive. It worked for Bush, it can work for them. Watching some of Palin/McCain on the trail this week shows small crowds enjoying this game of fear of calling O a terrorist. They are also trying as hard as they can to get an angry rise out of O and make him look like a mean black man anti-American dude.

[sweetheart-mine]

Nice post, Crow. That's some straight talk.

i agree, and appreciate that.

[Good Old Neon]

Dick Morris, Republican

[NightOfJoy]

I just keep thinking.....I had brunch with Bill Ayers once...I guess I can't run for President.

 

LouieB

 

I graduated from the same University that he teaches at.

 

OMG, I'm tainted by association!!

[NightOfJoy]

You are either with Obama or you are a McCain supporter/defender/neocon/fascist.

 

 

True.

[Party @ the Moontower]

I graduated from the same University that he teaches at.

 

OMG, I'm tainted by association!!

 

They know this

[NightOfJoy]

They know this

 

 

heh!

[sweetheart-mine]

I also don't buy into the "messianic" theme about Obama--either the supportive or dismissive case, since both exist. Yeah, there are some rapturous supporters. I don't understand them any more than I understand the people who think any politician or pundit out there has all the answers. I haven't been one of the Obama-as-savior people, but have been gradually won over by him to the point that I'm comfortable with the idea of him representing me at the highest level of government. I don't think he's a messiah, but at this particular point in time I would welcome my refrigerator as a national savior if it could manage to get more votes than McCain.

yes, that "messianic" label is just another empty, propagandistic lie and it floors me that some people buy it after all the lies of the past eight years. since when did becoming excited about a candidate who has the potential to start leading us out of the messes of a current administration make a person a scary, robotic warrior? it is plain old bullshit. excited support for a candidate who wants to turn things around used to be a perfectly understandable, reasonable phenomenon. to get pushed aside as some crazy, worshipful, dangerous zealot for that is ridiculous -- and so is the idea that obama himself thinks he's some kind of messiah -- but that's our newest politics, i guess.

 

just let's get this intelligent, decent, hardworking human being with some humane and commonsense vision in there and see what he can do. we know the horrendously damaging policies and leadership of the current administration and have a very good idea of how much farther down that path mccain and palin would take us. q23cd, i'd take your refrigerator over them too, though fortunately we have a human being willing to try to right this sinking ship, so huge a challenge that his willingness to give it a shot probably goes to show one of obama's human, not messianic, flaws.

[lost highway]

If the worst he can do is be terribly mediocre, this country will still be taking a step in the right direction.

[quarter23cd]

q23cd, i'd take your refrigerator over them too

A couple more supporters and we've got ourselves a movement!

 

Also, how was this missed during the primaries?

From CNN: "Chuck Norris brought his tough-guy approach to the campaign trail Sunday, taking aim at John McCain's age and suggesting the Arizona senator might not last even a single term. Norris, an ardent supporter of Mike Huckabee, told reporters he believes serving as president accelerates the aging process 3-to-1. 'If John takes over the presidency at 72 and he ages 3-to-1, how old will he be in four years? Eighty-four years old — and can he handle that kind of pressure in that job?' Norris said, as Huckabee looked on. 'That's why I didn't pick John to support, because I'm just afraid the vice president will wind up taking over his job within that four-year presidency.' added the action star."

Chuck Norris has predicted the future! Or did the future predict Chuck Norris? Either way, its bad...right?

 

Ok, carry on...

[Good Old Neon]

From Salon (now finally, hopefully, the more mainstream media will pick up and run with this and other similar reports):

 

The Palins' Un-American Activities

 

Imagine if the Obamas had hooked up with a violently anti-American group in league with the government of Iran.

 

"My government is my worst enemy. I'm going to fight them with any means at hand."

 

This was former revolutionary terrorist Bill Ayers back in his old Weather Underground days, right? Imagine what Sarah Palin is going to do with this incendiary quote as she tears into Barack Obama this week.

 

Only one problem. The quote is from Joe Vogler, the raging anti-American who founded the Alaska Independence Party. Inconveniently for Palin, that's the very same secessionist party that her husband, Todd, belonged to for seven years and that she sent a shout-out to as Alaska governor earlier this year. ("Keep up the good work," Palin told AIP members. "And God bless you.")

 

AIP chairwoman Lynette Clark told me recently that Sarah Palin is her kind of gal. "She's Alaskan to the bone ... she sounds just like Joe Vogler."

So who are these America-haters that the Palins are pallin' around with?

 

Before his strange murder in 1993, party founder Vogler preached armed insurrection against the United States of America. Vogler, who always carried a Magnum with him, was fond of saying, "When the [federal] bureaucrats come after me, I suggest they wear red coats. They make better targets. In the federal government are the biggest liars in the United States, and I hate them with a passion. They think they own [Alaska]. There comes a time when people will choose to die with honor rather than live with dishonor. That time may be coming here. Our goal is ultimate independence by peaceful means under a minimal government fully responsive to the people. I hope we don't have to take human life, but if they go on tramping on our property rights, look out, we're ready to die."

 

This quote is from "Coming Into the Country," by John McPhee, who traipsed around Alaska's remote gold mining country with Vogler for his 1991 book. The violent-tempered secessionist vowed to McPhee that if any federal official tried to stop him from polluting Alaska's rivers with his earth-moving equipment, he would "run over him with a Cat and turn mosquitoes loose on him while he dies."

 

Vogler wasn't just a blowhard either. He put his secessionist ideas into action, working to build AIP membership to 20,000 -- an impressive figure by Alaska standards -- and to elect party member Walter Hickel as governor in 1990.

 

Vogler's greatest moment of glory was to be his 1993 appearance before the United Nations to denounce United States "tyranny" before the entire world and to demand Alaska's freedom. The Alaska secessionist had persuaded the government of Iran to sponsor his anti-American harangue.

That's right ... Iran. The Islamic dictatorship. The taker of American hostages. The rogue nation that McCain and Palin have excoriated Obama for suggesting we diplomatically engage. That Iran.

 

AIP leaders allege that Vogler, who was murdered that year by a fellow secessionist, was taken out by powerful forces in the U.S. before he could reach his U.N. platform. "The United States government would have been deeply embarrassed," by Vogler's U.N. speech, darkly suggests Clark. "And we can't have that, can we?"

 

The Republican ticket is working hard this week to make Barack Obama's tenuous connection to graying, '60s revolutionary Bill Ayers a major campaign issue. But the Palins' connection to anti-American extremism is much more central to their political biographies.

 

Imagine the uproar if Michelle Obama was revealed to have joined a black nationalist party whose founder preached armed secession from the United States and who enlisted the government of Iran in his cause? The Obama campaign would probably not have survived such an explosive revelation. Particularly if Barack Obama himself was videotaped giving the anti-American secessionists his wholehearted support just months ago.

 

Where's the outrage, Sarah Palin has been asking this week, in her attacks on Obama's fuzzy ties to Ayers? The question is more appropriate when applied to her own disturbing associations.

 

Source - http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/...ins_unamerican/

[John Smith]

October 5, 2008

The Nation

Who You Callin

[sweetheart-mine]

A couple more supporters and we've got ourselves a movement!

ok then, i'm holding fast. i know a few undecideds who can probably be converted to your-fridge supporters. i'll have them call and email you.

 

as for chuck norris the action star, i haven't met an action star yet who made any sense but will keep trying.

[jakobnicholas]

Aren't all you Obama supporters SO proud to have someone as classy as Madonna on your side?

 

 

 

 

 

 

From gigwise.com:

 

 

[bjorn_skurj]

Aren't all you Obama supporters SO proud to have someone as classy as Madonna on your side?

 

 

 

 

 

 

From gigwise.com:

 

"Sarah Palin can't come to my show. It's nothing personal," Madonna was quoted by the NY Post as saying, before adding: "Here's the sound of Sarah Palin's husband's snowmobile when it won't start."

 

It's not the first time Madonna has spoken out against the Republican party during her 27-date Sticky & Sweet world tour.

 

The singer was criticised for bracketing an image of presidential hopeful John McCain with Adolf Hitler on the opening night of her world tour.

I don't approve of Madonna or demonization, but I'm still voting Obama.