It's time for a New Election Thread

[explodo]

The Biggest WTF moment that has gotten no play.

 

Biden seems determined to follow in the footsteps of every Democratic candidate since 1980 (outside of Clinton) and snatch defeat from the Jaws of victory.

 

ABC News’ Matthew Jaffe Reports: Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., on Sunday guaranteed that if elected, Sen. Barack Obama., D-Ill., will be tested by an international crisis within his first six months in power and he will need supporters to stand by him as he makes tough, and possibly unpopular, decisions.

“Mark my words,” the Democratic vice presidential nominee warned at the second of his two Seattle fundraisers Sunday. “It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We’re about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don’t remember anything else I said. Watch, we’re gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.”

“I can give you at least four or five scenarios from where it might originate,” Biden said to Emerald City supporters, mentioning the Middle East and Russia as possibilities. “And he’s gonna need help. And the kind of help he’s gonna need is, he’s gonna need you - not financially to help him - we’re gonna need you to use your influence, your influence within the community, to stand with him. Because it’s not gonna be apparent initially, it’s not gonna be apparent that we’re right.”

 

While I think it was a moronic thing to say, it is pretty likely to happen. Technically, we're already in a global crisis. That whole "we need to stand with him because it's not gonna be apparent that we're right" thing crosses all sorts of line, though. Can you say pre-emptive war? I like Joe Biden quite a bit, but he sure has a penchant for saying exactly what shouldn't be said.

[Sir Stewart]

It certainly was a WTF moment.

[John Smith]

Is the catholic church officially endorsing candidates and using their position as stewards of their parishioners souls to leverage votes? It sounds like it to me. And really it has been the last couple elections where they have become increasingly vocal about this. Are they now political organizations as well as religious? A church gets investigated for letting Obama speak (cleared by the way) yet the catholic church gets a pass for direct political activity? (I'm a former Catholic by the way>)

[kwall]

Obama is not pro-abortion. He's not telling people to get abortions, he's saying he wants the government to stay out of the decision.

if he's in favor of the federal gov't staying out of the decision, shouldn't he be in favor of repealing roe v. wade?

[explodo]

Is the catholic church officially endorsing candidates and using their position as stewards of their parishioners souls to leverage votes? It sounds like it to me. And really it has been the last couple elections where they have become increasingly vocal about this. Are they now political organizations as well as religious? A church gets investigated for letting Obama speak (cleared by the way) yet the catholic church gets a pass for direct political activity? (I'm a former Catholic by the way>)

I know my mom got handed a little book with her bulletin that told her how to vote. As it turns out, abortion trumps every single issue. Mostly because innocent Iraqis deserved to die while unborn children did not.

[Guest Jules]

[explodo]

if he's in favor of the federal gov't staying out of the decision, shouldn't he be in favor of repealing roe v. wade?

I won't pretend to be an expert on the case here, but what he wants is the choice to be between women, their doctors, and their spiritual advisers. If the case is repealed, it would let states legislate against abortion individually. Christy didn't say anything about the "federal" government. She said government. You'd have to ask her, but I'm pretty sure state governments are also governments.

[austrya]

Is the catholic church officially endorsing candidates and using their position as stewards of their parishioners souls to leverage votes? It sounds like it to me. And really it has been the last couple elections where they have become increasingly vocal about this. Are they now political organizations as well as religious? A church gets investigated for letting Obama speak (cleared by the way) yet the catholic church gets a pass for direct political activity? (I'm a former Catholic by the way>)

 

The Catholic church never said they want people to vote for McCain specifically. They never endorsed him as a candidate. They can urge parishioners to vote a certain way on certain issues, but they can't specifically endorse a party or candidate.

 

Our church has a "Vote no on proposal 2" sign out front, but they couldn't have a McCain or Obama sign out there. They could put a pro-life sign out there if they were so inclined.

 

Our church as always urged voters to look at the whole picture, unless you are a one issue (abortion) voter, then pro-life wins.

[Winston Legthigh]

Is the catholic church officially endorsing candidates and using their position as stewards of their parishioners souls to leverage votes?

 

I just did a brief online search, and did not find an "official endorsement", nor has an endorsement come up in any of the masses I have attended.

[redjim]

if he's in favor of the federal gov't staying out of the decision, shouldn't he be in favor of repealing roe v. wade?

 

 

No. Roe vs. Wade was put in place to combat laws making abortion illegal. If the state and federal governement had the good sense to stay out of a woman's uterus in the first place then the courts could have stayed out of it.

[Analogman]

I believe there were some stories in the news a while back about some churches who were endorsing McCain - can't recall who and where though.

[fatheadfred]

I understand what Biden is saying and it rings true his candor; however, in terms of a presidential campaign it is ill timed. Just hold on a little longer Joe. I appreciate his inability to be completely dishonest due to his passion for politics but in this case it bit him on the ass, again. Good thing no one pays attention to him anyway. He could probably say something even more outlandish and it wouldn't get any play. Thanks Sarah.

[kwall]

No. Roe vs. Wade was put in place to combat laws making abortion illegal. If the state and federal governement had the good sense to stay out of a woman's uterus in the first place then the courts could have stayed out of it.

my point is that it's a little disingenuous to say that he's against government involvement in the issue. he's in favor of government involvement as long as it supports his view. which is fine. just sayin.

[MattZ]

my point is that it's a little disingenuous to say that he's against government involvement in the issue. he's in favor of government involvement as long as it supports his view. which is fine. just sayin.

 

Not sure I agree with your point. Without government involvement, abortions would be medical procedures/decisions made by patients and their doctors when and if appropriate. Government got involved to affirmatively outlaw abortions, which resulted in government getting involved to undo what it had done.

[uncool2pillow]

my point is that it's a little disingenuous to say that he's against government involvement in the issue. he's in favor of government involvement as long as it supports his view. which is fine. just sayin.

That, and if Roe were repealed, abortion laws would be the states' jurisdiction, not the feds. I think much of the rabid feelings on both sides of the abortion issue are due, to a large extent, to the feeling that this decision was taken out of the people's hands by a decision that stretched the meaning of the Bill of Rights beyond the recognition of many people.

 

I'm pretty strong supporter of the right to choose, but not of the Roe v. Wade decision.

[kwall]

Not sure I agree with your point. Without government involvement, abortions would be medical procedures/decisions made by patients and their doctors when and if appropriate. Government got involved to affirmatively outlaw abortions, which resulted in government getting involved to undo what it had done.

fair enough.

 

That, and if Roe were repealed, abortion laws would be the states' jurisdiction, not the feds. I think much of the rabid feelings on both sides of the abortion issue are due, to a large extent, to the feeling that this decision was taken out of the people's hands by a decision that stretched the meaning of the Bill of Rights beyond the recognition of many people.

 

I'm pretty strong supporter of the right to choose, but not of the Roe v. Wade decision.

excellent.

[redjim]

Exactly -- the point is that they shouldnt have gotten involved in the first place. And i know abortion is an important issue (i guess) but if your vote simply comes down to that one issue - despite all that is going on in the world at this point in time - i dunno. I look forward to the day when abortion and gay marriage are the 2 things gripping the country.

[Central Scrutinizer]

From the Wall Street Journal ( http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122455027730552509.html )

 

Ben Bernanke apparently wants four more years as Federal Reserve Chairman. At least that's a reasonable conclusion after Mr. Bernanke all but submitted his job application to Barack Obama yesterday by endorsing the Democratic version of fiscal "stimulus."

 

While the Fed chief said any stimulus should be "well targeted," even a general endorsement amounts to a political green light. Mr. Bernanke certainly knows that Mr. Obama and Democrats on Capitol Hill are talking about some $300 billion in new "stimulus" spending, while President Bush and Republicans are resisting. And by saying any help should "limit longer-term effects" on the federal deficit, he had to know he was reinforcing Democratic opposition to permanent tax cuts.

 

Mr. Bernanke could have begged off -- and would have been wiser to do so -- given how much the Fed has already made itself a political lightning rod with its many Wall Street interventions. He might also have thought twice about endorsing one party's policy preferences a mere two weeks before Election Day given his obligation to preserve the Fed's independence. We can remember when tougher Fed chairmen used to refrain from adjusting interest rates close to an election for fear of seeming to be political; they would never have dreamed of meddling in campaign tax and spending debates.

 

Perhaps Mr. Bernanke's blunderbuss political intrusion will win him more Democrat friends, and maybe even Mr. Obama's goodwill. To the rest of the world, he has harmed the Fed and made himself less credible.

[John Smith]

I know my mom got handed a little book with her bulletin that told her how to vote. As it turns out, abortion trumps every single issue. Mostly because innocent Iraqis deserved to die while unborn children did not.

 

 

I just did a brief online search, and did not find an "official endorsement", nor has an endorsement come up in any of the masses I have attended.

 

I don't think it has to be "official" positions of the church. They seem to be advocating voting for a particular candidate. Way back in 2004 didn't a california church get investigated for the minsiter saying that he did not believe Jesus woudl support either Bush or Kerry?

 

I believe there were some stories in the news a while back about some churches who were endorsing McCain - can't recall who and where though.

 

A couple of mega churches int he south said they were going to actively support McCain. The results of this are yet to be seen.

 

my point is that it's a little disingenuous to say that he's against government involvement in the issue. he's in favor of government involvement as long as it supports his view. which is fine. just sayin.

 

Keeping governmentout of the issue is being in favor of government involvement? Interesting. Roe v Wade is not government involvmment by the way, it is a decision regarding government involvment and infringing on a right to privacy, which Sarah Palin says we all have, so she agrees with it.

[Edie]

You guys are like baby birds

 

I actually think that this little thread in this little message board pretty closely approximates the electorate. I apologize if I left out anyone -- let me know and I'll edit with your preference.

 

Righties (for the most part):

Tweedling

Jules

Ikol

BleedOrange

JakobN

kwall

2cool (or whatever it is)

JUDE

Crow daddy

 

 

Centerists/Independents

BB1313

Uncle Wilco

 

Lefties:

FHF

Solace

Flick

Louie

PATM

[fatheadfred]

Abortion and gay marriage... Tired of this debate.

 

He is not pro abortion. He/they are saying it is your choice. You can choose for or against. Why tell those for it that they can't? Those for it are saying you have to, if that were the case...duh! No more kids.

 

Gay marriage. We are protecting what?

[Winston Legthigh]

I don't think it has to be "official" positions of the church. They seem to be advocating voting for a particular candidate.

Right, but you asked if the Catholic church was officially endorsing candidates.

 

It appears some priests may be advocating voting for a particular candidate. There is not a church-wide endorsement.

[jenbobblehead]

I don't want to jinx anything here, but Virginia is on the brink of voting a democrat into the white house for the first time since 1964. i am sure it is not a coincidence that caliber and i just happened to move here this year.

 

hm?

 

you're welcome.

[austrya]

Your avatar looks like my cat!

[watch me fall]

I agree about Reni coming back. I always enjoyed her insights about various things.