Sir Stewart Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 The fact that they were miserable losers for 30 of the years you followed them and they were continually at best second to the Yankees Sure, the Red Sox were perennial bridesmaids, but "miserable losers"? Christ. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Sure, the Red Sox were perennial bridesmaids, but "miserable losers"? Christ. Yeah...I know. It's hyperbole, I guess. I was listening to XM Book Radio and they're doing Emporers and Idiots...so I kind of got caught up in Red Sox angst. But that being admitted to, I still don't think Bobby V would be an earthshatteringly bad choice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 While I am not a fan of pitchers winning the MVP, I think Verlander is a worthy choice. However, I think that Michael Young should have fared better than 8th. I'm not sure who he should place above, but Michael Young was definitely the MVP of the AL Champs.He played in 159 games and saw significant time at 1b, 3b, DH and also did spot duty at SS and 2b.He led the league in hits.When Hamilton went down in April, Young moved into the 3 spot in the batting order.When Beltre went down in August, Young moved into his spot at 3b and the batting order (cleanup).He didn't have a great post season, but MVP voting doesn't really count that.I'm not saying he should have won the MVP, but he deserved to have better recognition from the Sports writers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I think a valid case could be made that a pitcher should win the MVP every year in both leagues. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I think a valid case could be made that a pitcher should win the MVP every year in both leagues. Certainly is a hot topic. But I tend to fall into agreement with the argument that the CY YOUNG award is sufficient to acknowledge the pitching position. It's discussions like this are really unique to baseball and one of the reasons I love the game. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Michael Young had a great season, but he wasn't even the MVP of the Rangers. Ian Kinsler and Adrian Beltre were much more valuable this year, and I think an argument could be made for Mike Napoli. Young is probably fourth. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Michael Young had a great season, but he wasn't even the MVP of the Rangers. Ian Kinsler and Adrian Beltre were much more valuable this year, and I think an argument could be made for Mike Napoli. Young is probably fourth. I disagree. So There. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I disagree. So There. Are you Evan Grant? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Are you Evan Grant? Not that fat, have a lot more hair and I don't lisp. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Certainly is a hot topic. But I tend to fall into agreement with the argument that the CY YOUNG award is sufficient to acknowledge the pitching position. It's discussions like this are really unique to baseball and one of the reasons I love the game. Crow I agree with you, but there are some cases in which a pitcher was so dominate that he was the Most Valuable Player in the league. That is the case this year. Couldn't you argue that the Silver Sluggers / golden Glove awards represent the best for their positions? I think the MVP (and baseball) for that matter puts too much emphasis on offense. It is nice to see defense being rewarded. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I think all postseason awards in sports are stupid, so I don't really care either way. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Oil Can Boyd Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Certainly is a hot topic. But I tend to fall into agreement with the argument that the CY YOUNG award is sufficient to acknowledge the pitching position.That's fine but then it should be clear that pitchers are not eligible for MVP votes. What annoys me is when writers/voters take it on themselves to decide that pitchers are not eligible when the rules state that they are. Yes, I am still bitter about Pedro Martinez in 1999 (and the NY Post's George King). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 While I am not a fan of pitchers winning the MVP, I think Verlander is a worthy choice. However, I think that Michael Young should have fared better than 8th. I'm not sure who he should place above, but Michael Young was definitely the MVP of the AL Champs.He played in 159 games and saw significant time at 1b, 3b, DH and also did spot duty at SS and 2b.He led the league in hits.When Hamilton went down in April, Young moved into the 3 spot in the batting order.When Beltre went down in August, Young moved into his spot at 3b and the batting order (cleanup).He didn't have a great post season, but MVP voting doesn't really count that.I'm not saying he should have won the MVP, but he deserved to have better recognition from the Sports writers. Yeah, but he wasn't any good at any of those defensive positions, and was 14th in the AL in OPS. I think he's too high at 8th. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rareair Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Forgot the lately. Good God did it need the lately. Wel Mr. Rareair,I especially like the 'pretending as if you were a life-long rangers fan' part. (Although I now understand the confusion I caused by not putting in the adverb) Not that I have to defend myself to you or anybody else, I don't particularly like the tone. (Although I fully understand it given my clumbsy writing) I'm 51 years old. I've lived in Texas for all 51 of those years. I was 11 years old in April 1971 when the Rangers played their first game in the old turnpike stadium. Why is it hard to believe I've been a Rangers fan for years? (Again the omission of that pesky 'lately')I suffered through years and years of mediocre, at best, baseball. I had my hopes raised in 1974, 1977, 1978. I saw this franchise continually send away their best prospects for a pocket full of change (Ron Darling and Walt Terrell for LEE FREAKIN MAZZILLI?!) l saw Bobby V take a bunch of youngsters, spare parts, bailing wire and bubble gum and make thinGs interesting for a couple of years.There were good years in the mid to late 90's, but it has been very slim pickings for most of this Century. And by the way, Mike Maddox (the pitching coach of the team,whom accoring to you I band wagoned ((again...I don't blame anybody but myself for the confusion))) didn't even want to interview in Boston. The problems in Beantown appear to be a bit bigger than bringing in an eccentric, egotistical manager. Just saying...(I'm sure I have just been added to the ignore list of more than a few readers after this trainwreck) i was kidding. but not every baseball opinion must relate back to the rangers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 i was kidding. but not every baseball opinion must relate back to the rangers. Just as every opinon doesn't relat to the Cubs, the White Sox, the Red Sox or the Yankees? The Rangers are the team I follow and care about. I don't give two figs for who manages the Cubs or Red Sox, but I do have opinions. I hope they are reasonably well informed, but they will always be influenced by the 40 years I have invested in my team. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rareair Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Just as every opinon doesn't relat to the Cubs, the White Sox, the Red Sox or the Yankees? The Rangers are the team I follow and care about. I don't give two figs for who manages the Cubs or Red Sox, but I do have opinions. I hope they are reasonably well informed, but they will always be influenced by the 40 years I have invested in my team. if i say fair enough, can we quit talking about this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Oil Can Boyd Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I think the MVP (and baseball) for that matter puts too much emphasis on offense. It is nice to see defense being rewarded.KevinG - maybe I'm missing your point but where is defense being rewarded? Neither Verlander nor Braun won the MVP based on their defense. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 KevinG - maybe I'm missing your point but where is defense being rewarded? Neither Verlander nor Braun won the MVP based on their defense. 'Defense,' in this case, would probably be more accurately stated as 'run prevention.' Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 if i say fair enough, can we quit talking about this? LOL...I've heard that before. But do you MEAN it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Yeah, but he wasn't any good at any of those defensive positions, and was 14th in the AL in OPS. I think he's too high at 8th.He was more than serviceable at third this year and he was NOT a liability at first. But, your point is taken.However, I firnly believe that the Rangers would not have won the West this year without Michael Young in the lineup every day. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I think it's more than a stretch to say Michael Young was worth 11 wins last season. Adjusted for the park they play in, they had the third best offense and second best pitching in the league. He had a fine year, and yes, his ability to play a couple of different positions is valuable (even if every single defensive metric rates him poorly,) but he was that team was not a Michael Young away from missing the playoffs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 KevinG - maybe I'm missing your point but where is defense being rewarded? Neither Verlander nor Braun won the MVP based on their defense. Last I checked Verlander is a pitcher. Pitching is a defensive position. It stops scoring runs. That is it's point. Any person who is not at bat is a member of the defense. Braun won on his MVP on his offensive numbers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Last I checked Verlander is a pitcher. Pitching is a defensive position. It stops scoring runs. That is it's point. Any person who is not at bat is a member of the defense. Settle down now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I think it's more than a stretch to say Michael Young was worth 11 wins last season. Adjusted for the park they play in, they had the third best offense and second best pitching in the league. He had a fine year, and yes, his ability to play a couple of different positions is valuable (even if every single defensive metric rates him poorly,) but he was that team was not a Michael Young away from missing the playoffs. Was Young more valuable to the AL Champion Rangers that Migule Cabrerra was to the Tigers? Alex Avilla? They both finished higher.I'm not saying that Young should have won, I'm saying that his day to day presence, his leadership, his versatility and his ability to fill several distinct roles in the field and the lineup rated better than an 8th place finish.That's all. And this is what I love about baseball.Does anybody (who is not a professional journalist) even remember who won the AFC MVP last year? And was it still being debated a month after the season?Baseball...it's a talking sport. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Settle down now. Can we talk about steroids again? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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