bobbob1313 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Was Young more valuable to the AL Champion Rangers that Migule Cabrerra was to the Tigers? Alex Avilla? They both finished higher.I'm not saying that Young should have won, I'm saying that his day to day presence, his leadership, his versatility and his ability to fill several distinct roles in the field and the lineup rated better than an 8th place finish.That's all. I think you overrate all that stuff, because he was still not one of the best players in the league. I think those things are nice, but at the end of the day both Avila and Cabrera were flat out better players. They did more to help their teams win games by way of being flat out better players. Also, it doesn't matter even an iota that they were the "AL Champion Rangers." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I think you overrate all that stuff, because he was still not one of the best players in the league. I think those things are nice, but at the end of the day both Avila and Cabrera were flat out better players. They did more to help their teams win games by way of being flat out better players. Also, it doesn't matter even an iota that they were the "AL Champion Rangers." OK...Alex Avila was a better player. Yeah Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 OK...Alex Avila was a better player. Yeah Relax. Young finished with more MVP vote-points than Avila. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The High Heat Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Michael Young's value is definetly arguable. He was the only player to garner at least one vote in each ranking in the top ten, but he only received one vote in slots one through six. Why anyone would allot him a vote at first, second or third place is beyond me. He has a value, but a league MVP? I don't know about that. And Mike Avila was the best hitting catcher in MLB in 2011. I'd certainly take him over Michael Young, whom I do respect as a player by the way. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Michael Young's value is definetly arguable. He was the only player to garner at least one vote in each ranking in the top ten, but he only received one vote in slots one through six. Why anyone would allot him a vote at first, second or third place is beyond me. He has a value, but a league MVP? I don't know about that. And Mike Avila was the best hitting catcher in MLB in 2011. I'd certainly take him over Michael Young, whom I do respect as a player by the way. Baseball's a talking sport. I'd take Mike Napoli (a part time catcher) over Avila every time. Napoli certainly put up great numbers is a part time role with the AMERICAN LEAGUE CHAMPION TEXAS RANGERS (I put it in caps because I do love getting Bobbob going), but Stats don't tell the entire picture. Young played in 159 games filling several different roles in the lineup and the field.At the age of 35 (not an inconsequential fact) he had 631 at bats, hit .338, had an OBP of .350, .451 slugging, .801 (a stat that may be a bit overrated), led the team in triples with 6, hit 41 doulbes and drove in 106 runs wiht only 11 HRS. He didn't shine in the post season and I imagine this colors the perception that people have of him.But this guy can hit 2nd, 3rd, Cleanup, sixth (and did). He dh's, plays first, second, third and short. When key players went down, Young stepped in and filled their role...when Hamilton went down, Young took over the third spot in the order. When Beltre went down, Young moved to third AND hit cleanup.The guys a baller. He's old school. And he isn't a 'sexy' of flashy player. And apparently not fully appreciated on the national scene. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 part time sentence for a part time player. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Relax. Young finished with more MVP vote-points than Avila. Hmmm...not on the list I saw. Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 At the age of 35 (not an inconsequential fact)That he is playing well in his mid-30s is to be praised, but it is in fact inconsequential to whether or not he is the most valuable player in the league. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 part time sentence for a part time player. Part time sentence?Part Time Player? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The High Heat Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 Michael Young, whom I do respect as a player by the way. He has a tremendous value in his current role as a high-end utility player, a role he didn't want but is best suited for. I don't see him as a part-time player. He should play every day where needed, as Tony Phillips did in the '90's. Any team would love to have a guy who can do what he does. He's a luxury and important to the Rangers, but he's not really league MVP material. Also, irrelevantly, he's overpaid. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 He has a tremendous value in his current role as a high-end utility player, a role he didn't want but is best suited for. I don't see him as a part-time player. He should play every day where needed, as Tony Phillips did in the '90's. Any team would love to have a guy who can do what he does. He's a luxury and important to the Rangers, but he's not really league MVP material. Also, irrelevantly, he's overpaid. Well...if you get right down to it, every baseball player is overpaid. It's a bit like the real estate market. A player is worth what somebody is willing to pay for them. At times, the market corrects (watch what is happening to the Closer market. The Phillies way overpaid for Pappelbon and the other teams in the market for a closer don't seem willing to follow their path). Young was more important to the 2011 Rangers than Guerrero was to the 2010 Rangers in the big picture. (Not that Guerrero was a MVP candiate...but humor me her). His 'high-end utility' role meant the Rangers didn't have an obvious hole in the lineup when they played against NL teams. (Guerrero could no longer play in the field while Young was able to play first proficiently.) However, Young all but disappeared in the playoffs making the point almost moot. This is a bit like an arbitration hearing. One side talking down a player (althought they probably don't feel that he is as bad as they portray) and the other point out every possible advantage of their side (while probably stretching the points). That's reason number 55 why I love baseball. It's a talking sport. I can't imagine getting worked up over or even discussing the NFL MVP. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 It could be argued, reasonably, that most MLB players are actually underpaid. But that's another issue.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The High Heat Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20111129&content_id=26057524&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb It's official: Bobby V is the new manager of the BoSox. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 It could be argued, reasonably, that most MLB players are actually underpaid. But that's another issue.... True.But you might find it hard to find a lot of people who agree with that.I think Baseball players should get whatever the market will bear. If the Rangers want to pay Young $16+ million a year, so be it. If the Yankees want to pay A-Rod $32 Million a year...well...maybe he is overpaid. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 A-Rod isn't most baseball players. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 A-Rod isn't most baseball players. Thank Jebus... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I've been gone for a while -- did someone really try to suggest that Michael Young was more valuable than Miguel Cabrera? Doesn't matter how you define "valuable," there isn't even a single definition where that makes any sense whatsoever. Miguel Cabrera is a reasonable MVP choice pretty much every year (though he has often times played 2nd or 3rd fiddle to guys have crazy seasons). Also, though Avila had less plate appearances, he also played 141 games (which is a whole lot for a catcher) and beat Young in WAR (by more than double), OBP and SLG (thus obviously OPS as well), HR, etc etc., meanwhile playing well a much harder position than any of the ones that Young plays slightly-less-than-adequately. Young is a good player and no doubt valuable, but MVP talk for him is silly. He's maybe the third or fourth best choice on his own team. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I've been gone for a while -- did someone really try to suggest that Michael Young was more valuable than Miguel Cabrera? Doesn't matter how you define "valuable," there isn't even a single definition where that makes any sense whatsoever. Miguel Cabrera is a reasonable MVP choice pretty much every year (though he has often times played 2nd or 3rd fiddle to guys have crazy seasons). Also, though Avila had less plate appearances, he also played 141 games (which is a whole lot for a catcher) and beat Young in WAR (by more than double), OBP and SLG (thus obviously OPS as well), HR, etc etc., meanwhile playing well a much harder position than any of the ones that Young plays slightly-less-than-adequately. Young is a good player and no doubt valuable, but MVP talk for him is silly. He's maybe the third or fourth best choice on his own team. Wasn't me.But...intangiblels are important. (Young might have gotten pissed for a bit about asking to be moved to another position, but he didn't embarrass the team with behavior issues). Plus...WAR is a silly stat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 That he is playing well in his mid-30s is to be praised, but it is in fact inconsequential to whether or not he is the most valuable player in the league. As is the fact that his team won an additional 7 games following the end of the regular season. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Plus...WAR is a silly stat. And your reasoning for this is? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rareair Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 In case you were wondering, Steve Garvey ranked 14th in WAR in the NL in 1974. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Let's move to more pressing business. Anyone check out the Marlins (now Miami Marlins) new uniforms? http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20111111&content_id=25960504&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb Ick with a stick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rareair Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Yeah, I think they're pretty atrocious. The color scheme, the typeface...they're glorified softball jerseys. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 wow...just...wow Now the 70's Astro's uniforms aren't the most heinously ugly of all time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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