LP11 Speculation

[chisoxjtrain]

I wish Jeff’s vocals were a little less reverb-y so I could make the words out better. Also wanna take a crack at figuring out the chords this week. 

Such a pretty song.

 

Ask and you shall receive: http://viachicago.org/topic/53590-love-is-everywhere-beware/

[jbray]

Since I'm the one who stirred up this pot,  I don't care what tempo the songs are, or how hard they rock, but I want to hear Tweedy dig deeper into the extremely deep well of the band's potential than he did for Schmilco, and for most of the songs the current lineup has made.   

 

I think that's totally fair and probably desired by most, including myself. My other post a couple of pages back was trying to suggest that the well my not be that deep and is instead breezy 70s rock (The Autumn Defense) and sometimes noise for noise's sake (Nels Cline). In my heart, I want a Mikael Jorgensen led production because that could be off the wall. 

 

And for clarity's sake, my rockers/Star Wars comments were aimed at Coornelius and Chez plus those admittedly absent people over on Facebook who are using songs like "I'm a Wheel" to define what they feel Wilco is lacking, not really your critique Jff. I apologize for that confusion. I saw the term "recently" to mean Sukierae-Warmer so I pointed to SW. I think we got crossed because my initial post was both to address their point and yours. To clear up Nalafej's question: I am saying that all Wilco records are dry of rockers post ST (excepting SW which I felt was being overlooked) so blaming the current lineup doesn't feel valid (but Jff wasn't even talking about rockers so this part is moot) nor does saying that recent Wilco albums have lacked them when SW exists. I hope that clears it up?

[SarahC]

Ask and you shall receive: http://viachicago.org/topic/53590-love-is-everywhere-beware/

Thanks, dude!

I really dig how much Jeff’s been using the c/b chord lately.

[summerdai]

That’s exactly what I meant. Imagine if in some parallel universe the tour dates in Sept & Oct were flipped, so that you have the U.S. shows first. I’m sure if that were the case a lot of people would be upset that the album came out after they saw them. And I mean that it seems like we have more people posting here from the states. So leaking or streaming the album on the official site makes a lot of sense to make fans familiar with the new tunes. I can’t think of the last time Wilco had a tour where it was called by the new album title, but said new album didn’t drop until a month into the tour.

 

Plus, if they don’t leak or stream the album fans will be rabid when it comes to getting their hands on boots of the September shows.

 

I vividly remember getting the Schmilco leak and I’m fairly certain that it was on the eve of that tour. It sucks that that tour never made its way to Boston.

 

RE: Star Wars - the surprise leak happened on July 16th. The official release was on August 21st, so not too long of a waiting period.

 

Official Prediction: WilcoWorld will stream the new album over Labor Day weekend. A couple of days after Labor Day will be the 1st European show.

 

But Star Wars wasn't a leak. It was a surprise immediate availability. There had been no announcement of a release date for the physical version until that happened. The new album will be released in all formats on Oct 4th, only then will it be available to stream in full is what I think. There may be 1 or 2 other songs released in advance of that though.

[nalafej]

I think that's totally fair and probably desired by most, including myself. My other post a couple of pages back was trying to suggest that the well my not be that deep and is instead breezy 70s rock (The Autumn Defense) and sometimes noise for noise's sake (Nels Cline). In my heart, I want a Mikael Jorgensen led production because that could be off the wall. 

 

 I hope that clears it up?

 

Clear!

 

A Ghost is Born is kinda a Jorgensen record, right? I guess O'Rourke too/mostly though. 'Unlikely Japan' is a great track that gives me an idea what you are looking for. Would be awesome. WilcoBook has more MJ stuff too?

[summerdai]

That's how I interpeted U2roolz's comment, and what I meant.  I think there's very little chance the record won't be streamable before the official release date.

 

Official releases rather than "leaks". It may be streamable in full, but that takes away from their Spotify, Apple Music etc income in official release week. The shows will sell out anyway, so it makes no difference whether they play new music at them or not. In fact some fans may well prefer them not to play the new stuff.

[jbray]

Clear!

 

A Ghost is Born is kinda a Jorgensen record, right? I guess O'Rourke too/mostly though. 'Unlikely Japan' is a great track that gives me an idea what you are looking for. Would be awesome. WilcoBook has more MJ stuff too?

 

Yeah, AGIB demos were the band working through musical concepts at SOMA where Jorgensen worked which in turn became pieces of the Wilco Book. The Wilco book is really incomplete but is exactly the ideas I want to see developed. "Unlikely Japan" is another great example of that and Mike's idea.  

 

From what I've heard of Ode to Joy (specifically "An Empty Corner" and "Beyond Us", there are these really delicate piano shapes and steel guitar that are creating this haunting soundscape tied with resonant drums. This type of soundbed work is what defines YHF and AGIB especially on the Wilco Book stuff. So that's why I'm excited.

[Madcap]

That sounds cool and would fit with the teaser. Some more experimental Wilco would be fantastic.

 

Now the question is pink or black vinyl?!

[jff]

I think that's totally fair and probably desired by most, including myself. My other post a couple of pages back was trying to suggest that the well my not be that deep and is instead breezy 70s rock (The Autumn Defense) and sometimes noise for noise's sake (Nels Cline). In my heart, I want a Mikael Jorgensen led production because that could be off the wall. 

 

And for clarity's sake, my rockers/Star Wars comments were aimed at Coornelius and Chez plus those admittedly absent people over on Facebook who are using songs like "I'm a Wheel" to define what they feel Wilco is lacking, not really your critique Jff. I apologize for that confusion. I saw the term "recently" to mean Sukierae-Warmer so I pointed to SW. I think we got crossed because my initial post was both to address their point and yours. To clear up Nalafej's question: I am saying that all Wilco records are dry of rockers post ST (excepting SW which I felt was being overlooked) so blaming the current lineup doesn't feel valid (but Jff wasn't even talking about rockers so this part is moot) nor does saying that recent Wilco albums have lacked them when SW exists. I hope that clears it up?

 

No need to apologize for anything. 

 

I think the bold portion is not really a fair representation of what the various members of Wilco can bring to the table, if given the opportunity.  Noise is only one of the many things Nels has done throughout his long career (just in the last, say, five years, he's done orchestral music, guitar duets, power trio rock, fusion, jam band, big band jazz, jazz quartet, free improvisation, and yes, noise).  I don't really know what the Autumn Defense does.  But let's take Glenn.  His solo work is composed percussion, in which layers of rhythm are used in conjunction with tuned percussion and all sorts of non-traditional and prepared instruments.  Wilco incorporated some of that on YHF, but ever since then, he mostly plays Levoin Helm-esque drumbeats on the bulk of the material he's recorded with them.  Wilco sometimes feels like Jeff gives them demos of the songs and they play along and that's the song, rather than the group building songs together from the ground up.  So it's like one ingredient with a few different seasonings on top, rather than a complete meal made up of many ingredients working together (with exceptions, of course.)

[jbray]

I used the Autumn Defense as my primary due to them representing 2/6 contributors. I am being unfair to Nels, that's true. I often wonder if he feels there are only certain ingredients he can bring for Wilco songs. An observation that a friend said to me about the new single was that he didn't use "a single tremolo lick" which is something that is one of those small things that sounded great on SBS but became a style pattern that made other Wilco songs sound the same as SBS, especially Wilco (The Album). Does he feel that those are his skills that he can bring to the "Wilco sound" and not his full breadth? The new lick feels like a new piece of Nels that has been included and I'm here for it. 

 

I'm not sure how the writing dynamic is different than before to influence it. As in, I was never in the room so I will only ever be able to speculate. Glenn wasn't the first drummer on the YHF material, but he's also not the first drummer on demos now due to Jeff wanting to play with his son. If the pattern is, "Jeff writes a song, individuals or the band come in to parse it or add to it, a final recording is made," I'm not sure what else can be done other than to push Jeff out of his element. Jeff's songs right now play into that Autumn Defense vibe and not into jazz chord voicings or deconstructed percussion. I thought Glenn did a great job with Schmilco on songs like "Cry All Day", "Quarters", and "Just Say Goodbye" but they're also not "Deeper Down" or "Art of Almost". 

 

  Wilco incorporated some of that on YHF, but ever since then, he mostly plays Levoin Helm-esque drumbeats on the bulk of the material he's recorded with them.  

 

I get this and agree with it, but the pedant in me wants to point out that AGIB is also full of Glenn albeit differently than YHF. That is also still 2003/4 so your point holds. 

[DiamondClaw]

No need to apologize for anything. 

 

I think the bold portion is not really a fair representation of what the various members of Wilco can bring to the table, if given the opportunity.  Noise is only one of the many things Nels has done throughout his long career (just in the last, say, five years, he's done orchestral music, guitar duets, power trio rock, fusion, jam band, big band jazz, jazz quartet, free improvisation, and yes, noise).  I don't really know what the Autumn Defense does.  But let's take Glenn.  His solo work is composed percussion, in which layers of rhythm are used in conjunction with tuned percussion and all sorts of non-traditional and prepared instruments.  Wilco incorporated some of that on YHF, but ever since then, he mostly plays Levoin Helm-esque drumbeats on the bulk of the material he's recorded with them.  Wilco sometimes feels like Jeff gives them demos of the songs and they play along and that's the song, rather than the group building songs together from the ground up.  So it's like one ingredient with a few different seasonings on top, rather than a complete meal made up of many ingredients working together (with exceptions, of course.)

 

 

I'm not sure how the writing dynamic is different than before to influence it. As in, I was never in the room so I will only ever be able to speculate. Glenn wasn't the first drummer on the YHF material, but he's also not the first drummer on demos now due to Jeff wanting to play with his son. If the pattern is, "Jeff writes a song, individuals or the band come in to parse it or add to it, a final recording is made," I'm not sure what else can be done other than to push Jeff out of his element. Jeff's songs right now play into that Autumn Defense vibe and not into jazz chord voicings or deconstructed percussion. I thought Glenn did a great job with Schmilco on songs like "Cry All Day", "Quarters", and "Just Say Goodbye" but they're also not "Deeper Down" or "Art of Almost".

I think this is just Jeff's process these days. Maybe he found it too difficult to build songs with six guys, it must be tough with so many hands in the pot. But everything he's done post-TWL has felt like personal demos that he picks guys to overdub on.

[chisoxjtrain]

I think this is just Jeff's process these days. Maybe he found it too difficult to build songs with six guys, it must be tough with so many hands in the pot. But everything he's done post-TWL has felt like personal demos that he picks guys to overdub on.

It isn’t actually, Tom Schick said as much at his talk at Solid Sound.

[DiamondClaw]

It isn’t actually, Tom Schick said as much at his talk at Solid Sound.

Really? That's interesting. What did he say?

[summerdai]

Jeff says in his book that he does demos with Spencer and then Glenn comes in and adds his own drum pattern. That would suggest the songs are pretty much finished before the rest of the band gets involved. Certainly could explain the relative lack of variation since Sukierae in Tweedy/Jeff Tweedy/Wilco releases.

[coornelius]

I think that's totally fair and probably desired by most, including myself. My other post a couple of pages back was trying to suggest that the well my not be that deep and is instead breezy 70s rock (The Autumn Defense) and sometimes noise for noise's sake (Nels Cline). In my heart, I want a Mikael Jorgensen led production because that could be off the wall. 

 

And for clarity's sake, my rockers/Star Wars comments were aimed at Coornelius and Chez plus those admittedly absent people over on Facebook who are using songs like "I'm a Wheel" to define what they feel Wilco is lacking, not really your critique Jff. I apologize for that confusion. I saw the term "recently" to mean Sukierae-Warmer so I pointed to SW. I think we got crossed because my initial post was both to address their point and yours. To clear up Nalafej's question: I am saying that all Wilco records are dry of rockers post ST (excepting SW which I felt was being overlooked) so blaming the current lineup doesn't feel valid (but Jff wasn't even talking about rockers so this part is moot) nor does saying that recent Wilco albums have lacked them when SW exists. I hope that clears it up?

 

Perhaps my comment was too brief, and I erred by mentioning Wheel specifically. What I'm mostly after is what's been repeatedly requested here: more sonic variety - styles, tempos, etc - over the course of one record. I really enjoyed Whole Love for that reason, and it's why both of the Wilco records that followed, while enjoyable, have felt slight to me. 

 

Also saw someone mention that maybe they just want Jeff on electric guitar, and honestly, that might do it too. I really enjoy his electric playing. 

[Albert Tatlock]

With the recycling of Everyone Hides, I wonder if any of the other songs are actually from what was quoted at the time as the second TWEEDY album that was put to one side during the Sukierae recordings. Not saying if that's bad or good (except that it would point to the same kind of style that has been the norm for a few releases) - more curious as to whether TWEEDY will every ride again (except for occasional SS appearances).

[summerdai]

With the recycling of Everyone Hides, I wonder if any of the other songs are actually from what was quoted at the time as the second TWEEDY album that was put to one side during the Sukierae recordings. Not saying if that's bad or good (except that it would point to the same kind of style that has been the norm for a few releases) - more curious as to whether TWEEDY will every ride again (except for occasional SS appearances).

 

He tries to write a song a day. That's a lot of songs!

[jff]

I think this is just Jeff's process these days. Maybe he found it too difficult to build songs with six guys, it must be tough with so many hands in the pot. But everything he's done post-TWL has felt like personal demos that he picks guys to overdub on.

 

Jeff has stated many times that his solo performances are, in part, a way to prove that the experimental stuff is really just regular songs that one guy with a guitar can perform.  So I think this may have always been his process.  It's just that in the last ten years or so he rarely incorporates the other part of the process that involves studio manipulation, post-production, experimentation, and which resulted in arguably their best work.

[DiamondClaw]

Jeff has stated many times that his solo performances are, in part, a way to prove that the experimental stuff is really just regular songs that one guy with a guitar can perform.  So I think this may have always been his process.  It's just that in the last ten years or so he rarely incorporates the other part of the process that involves studio manipulation, post-production, experimentation, and which resulted in arguably their best work.

I completely agree with that aspect of the solo stuff. You can sit down and play YHF in its entirety with just an acoustic guitar. It is proof the songs are so durable, and it's what makes Tweedy's solo acoustic shows so good. I think the songs are just as good now — the songwriting on Warm/Warmer is as good as ever. For me, it's mostly about the production and arrangements. The vocal performances and recordings particularly have been weaker over the last few albums. In general, sonically, the mix hasn't been as crisp or full since The Whole Love. That's what I would like to see cleaned up a bit.

 

I also think it's sometimes just a matter of timing. If Tweedy has the song "Shrug and Destroy" and it happens to be time for a Wilco album, then it becomes a Wilco song. If he writes "Family Ghost," which would have made a killer Wilco song IMO, and he happens to be doing a solo album, it becomes a solo track.

[lost highway]

I left town and technology behind right as this thread was getting interesting.

 

Coming back to Love is Everywhere, I think the song's real virtues are revealed with repeat listens. No, it's not a challenging piece of work, it's downright pleasant from the first listen, but I think it took 4 or 5 plays for me to realize it's actually great.

 

I don't think Ode to Joy is going to sound like any other Wilco record, least of all the last two. The interesting thing about that is in print a mostly folk record from Wilco seems at first glance to be a pretty ho-hum concept, but I think we're all going to be pleased.

[wilconut]

After hearing the acoustic versions of White Wooden Cross and Empty Corner on the BUILD show, this record better leak ASAP because I haven't been this excited for a Wilco record since The Whole Love. 

[jbray]

I left town and technology behind right as this thread was getting interesting.

 

Coming back to Love is Everywhere, I think the song's real virtues are revealed with repeat listens. No, it's not a challenging piece of work, it's downright pleasant from the first listen, but I think it took 4 or 5 plays for me to realize it's actually great.

 

I don't think Ode to Joy is going to sound like any other Wilco record, least of all the last two. The interesting thing about that is in print a mostly folk record from Wilco seems at first glance to be a pretty ho-hum concept, but I think we're all going to be pleased.

 

I'm expecting this to be their most critically observed record since Sky Blue Sky. For example, the unbeloved Pitchfork. Now that they've been around for over a couple decades, it's easy to have a complete picture on their angle which is cultural cachet with a tilt towards trendsetting (and abandonment of such trends before they're done i.e. every 3rd, 4th, and sometimes 5th album by an artist or band they've previously championed). Ode to Joy is the first Wilco record since The Whole Love that Pitchfork decided to review a track for which implies that they believe the song and/or the album to have enough cultural cache to warrant such a review. They didn't even grant Warm a track review even when they gave it a "Best New Music". To me, this is a flag of expectation from them. Other review sites are also giving Ode to Joy some juice so it could be that they have access to more tracks or are anticipating what the album will be. 

 

Personally, I have a hunch that this record will be the crown jewel of the prolific era but will not be given that esteem till later down the road like how Revolver has become a peak Beatles' album amongst fans but was overshadowed at the time. I think fans are burned out of the acoustic songs and, as such, are not ready to hear another batch even if they are the top of the class. 

[nalafej]

Ode to Joy is the first Wilco record since The Whole Love that Pitchfork decided to review a track for which implies that they believe the song and/or the album to have enough cultural cache to warrant such a review. They didn't even grant Warm a track review even when they gave it a "Best New Music". To me, this is a flag of expectation from them. 

 

Cynical take on this is that Jeff agreed to appear at their festival so they featured his song. 

[Madcap]

He also did the talk with Pitchfork pre-festival in 2015 when he announced Star Wars (and then debuted the entire album at the festival the next night), so i'm not sure that holds too much water.

[TCP]

Cynical take on this is that Jeff agreed to appear at their festival so they featured his song. 

 

Not to derail things. There's definitely something that makes me uncomfortable about Pitchfork also hosting their own festival. Especially since they now rarely report on other festivals unless it's after the fact (the Kermit the Frog stuff today) or bad news (Woodstock). But major festivals will announce their line ups and Pitchfork won't say anything, which feels weird especially from a journalistic view. I hate to put my tinfoil hat on but do they give more coverage, better coverage, to artists that are playing their fests?