The Grateful Dead

[Shug]

This is for the "jams only" guy.  Maybe he IS the guy who compiled this?!

 

https://youtu.be/Y4TW70xVkmU

 

 

I like the songwriting, I like the jams too, not really in any camp, other than the camp of Really Good Playing!

[Analogman]

I've always preferred the music of Dark Star over the lyrics. 

[Mr. Heartbreak]

I've always preferred the music of Dark Star over the lyrics. 

Well, that's pretty understandable. It was the first set of lyrics Robert Hunter passed along to the Dead. It's not bad, really, but it's no lyrical masterpiece. 

 

Sometimes, when they went way out there, Jerry wouldn't get around to singing the second verse. Most fans don't seem to mind that in the middle of a great pre-hiatus Dark Star meltdown (though it's always a disappointment to me when that happens).

 

I think Playin' In the Band is similar in that it's a well-known vehicle for lengthy space jams, and the lyrics aren't among the Dead's greatest, either. But it would never occur to me to think of Robert Hunter or Barlow's lyrics as "filler."

[mountain bed]

Originally I got suckered into it for the jams and the weirdness. But eventually the words started to assert themselves in my brain to the point that now I can come up with a Hunter/Barlow lyric to explain damn near any situation I might find myself in during any given day.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Originally I got suckered into it for the jams and the weirdness. But eventually the words started to assert themselves in my brain to the point that now I can come up with a Hunter/Barlow lyric to explain damn near any situation I might find myself in during any given day.

This is great, because it really is the exact opposite of my experience. I vividly remember my glassy-eyed older brother sitting on the floor listening to the E72 Jack Straw (then the only one available to the public), and I was baffled - I thought this band was kind of boring. They certainly didn't RAWK like what I was into: Aerosmith, Hendrix, Kiss, Van Halen, etc., etc.

 

But I remembered some of the lyrics I heard, and most were a cut above the harder rock bands: like when they appeared on SNL in '78 ("Drivin' that train/High on cocaine"), or the brand-new Throwin' Stones they played at my first show in '82 ("Commissars and pin-striped bosses roll the dice"). It took me a long time to get into them - same with Dylan, because his voice put me off for so long - but when I finally got it, I got it big time.

[jw harding]

Well, that's pretty understandable. It was the first set of lyrics Robert Hunter passed along to the Dead. It's not bad, really, but it's no lyrical masterpiece. 

 

Sometimes, when they went way out there, Jerry wouldn't get around to singing the second verse. Most fans don't seem to mind that in the middle of a great pre-hiatus Dark Star meltdown (though it's always a disappointment to me when that happens).

 

I think Playin' In the Band is similar in that it's a well-known vehicle for lengthy space jams, and the lyrics aren't among the Dead's greatest, either. But it would never occur to me to think of Robert Hunter or Barlow's lyrics as "filler."

I dunno about the lyrics to Dark Star not being a masterpiece. Don't they capture the nature of the psychedelic experience, and particularly of that era, as well as anything ever written? It's hard to separate the music from the lyrics from Garcia's delivery in Dark Star, its just all so perfect together. Maybe it's just me, but when I'm tripping my face off, and Garcia sings those words, it takes me places. 

 

On the other hand, the lyrics to Playin' are filler. Barlow has some other great lyrics, but really nothing profound there. Certainly the music of Playin' is far superior to the lyrics.

[calvino]

I agree that the Dark Star lryics capture the psychedelic experience quite well - I think that was what Hunter was going for, so I guess he hit the mark.

 

Regarding Playin' - I always enjoyed the first stanza and the theme of the tune quite a bit. The imaginary of the below stanza is great, too - especially while watching Weir perform it - heading into the 'standing' verse was always a highlight for me when I was at a show and the band performed it. The whole theatrics of Wier usually putting his arms in the air and all was fun.

 

Standing on a tower

World at my command
You just keep a turning
While I'm playing in the band

 

Regarding the whole jam and lyrics - I enjoy both equally and they both go hand and hand to make great show. 

[Analogman]

It always amazes me when Hunter talks about writing all those songs in one day - Ripple, etc. 

[Mr. Heartbreak]

I dunno about the lyrics to Dark Star not being a masterpiece. Don't they capture the nature of the psychedelic experience, and particularly of that era, as well as anything ever written? It's hard to separate the music from the lyrics from Garcia's delivery in Dark Star, its just all so perfect together. Maybe it's just me, but when I'm tripping my face off, and Garcia sings those words, it takes me places. 

Your 3rd sentence is the key for me: "It's hard to separate the music from the lyrics from Garcia's delivery..."

 

I come at this stuff from a literature background, and I have looked at some of these songs strictly on the page. Dark Star is a good effort from a young man, but I think Hunter reached much, much greater heights as he developed as a lyricist. 

 

But I'm pretty tough critically. If I'm honest, I'd say Dylan wrote a few lyrical masterpieces (Visions, Tangled, maybe It's Alright Ma), but I'd have to comb through the catalog to find something by Hunter that I'd put in the rarefied "masterpiece" category. Maybe Terrapin or Brokedown.

[Analogman]

I am listening to Two From The Vault which I have not listened to in years. I always liked the technical information page in back side of the cd case. It now sounds a bit muffled or muddy.  I guess it was re-released in 2007. I wonder if that release sounds better.

[jff]

As a one time deadhead, I think the thing that caused me to jump ship was the way other deadheads would use the lyrics the way many Christians use bible verses.  No matter the scenario, if there was a group of deadheads around, someone would spout a song lyric as if it was wisdom passed down from on high.  And like many Christians, it was too often a smokescreen to hide poor behavior.  A lot of the lyrics were good, but It was juggalo level annoying to me.  I've tried to convince myself that I'm just being cynical and that this was something that happened organically and was outside of the band's control, but there were shelves full of officially sanctioned Grateful Dead books in every bookstore when the Dead were a going concern (I owned a few of them) that encouraged this type of fandom, and had lyrics as pull quotes on every page.  Exactly like what you see in religious books.  Coincidentally, this all  occurred to me around the same time I gave up Christianity.

 

I still like the Dead, but that was one aspect of them that I wasn't able to stomach. 

[winterland121072]

Hey man - if you get confused just listen to the music play, but always remember that the grass ain't greener, the wine ain't sweeter, either side of hill...But, it is also important to not shake the tree if the fruit ain't ripe...especially if you are hauling red hot items for mob - best to try to be copacetic... and if all that fails, there is only one equation you need to know which is "F=ma" and there is only one word you need to know if "ripple."

 

But what do i know...i mean even the purest of romantics compromise...

 

As a one time deadhead, I think the thing that caused me to jump ship was the way other deadheads would use the lyrics the way many Christians use bible verses.  No matter the scenario, if there was a group of deadheads around, someone would spout a song lyric as if it was wisdom passed down from on high.  And like many Christians, it was too often a smokescreen to hide poor behavior.  A lot of the lyrics were good, but It was juggalo level annoying to me.  I've tried to convince myself that I'm just being cynical and that this was something that happened organically and was outside of the band's control, but there were shelves full of officially sanctioned Grateful Dead books in every bookstore when the Dead were a going concern (I owned a few of them) that encouraged this type of fandom, and had lyrics as pull quotes on every page.  Exactly like what you see in religious books.  Coincidentally, this all  occurred to me around the same time I gave up Christianity.

 

I still like the Dead, but that was one aspect of them that I wasn't able to stomach. 

[jff]

Hey man - if you get confused just listen to the music play, but always remember that the grass ain't greener, the wine ain't sweeter, either side of hill...But, it is also important to not shake the tree if the fruit ain't ripe...especially if you are hauling red hot items for mob - best to try to be copacetic... and if all that fails, there is only equation you need to know which is "F=ma" and the only word you need to know if "ripple."

 

OK, that was funny as shit. 

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Oh my God, my brother used to do that, and it was maddening.

 

The worst offenders were:

 

If the thunder don't get you, then the lightning will.

He travels the fastest who travels alone (which is actually just a Rudyard Kipling poem with music added to it).

 

After Jerry's death, he would sometimes be listening to a particularly ragged version of a Dead tune, and out of the blue he'd say something along the lines of "Come on, Jerry, shoot another bag of dope." That was always a bit of a buzzkill, too.

[uncool2pillow]

As a one time deadhead, I think the thing that caused me to jump ship was the way other deadheads would use the lyrics the way many Christians use bible verses.  No matter the scenario, if there was a group of deadheads around, someone would spout a song lyric as if it was wisdom passed down from on high.  And like many Christians, it was too often a smokescreen to hide poor behavior.  A lot of the lyrics were good, but It was juggalo level annoying to me.  I've tried to convince myself that I'm just being cynical and that this was something that happened organically and was outside of the band's control, but there were shelves full of officially sanctioned Grateful Dead books in every bookstore when the Dead were a going concern (I owned a few of them) that encouraged this type of fandom, and had lyrics as pull quotes on every page.  Exactly like what you see in religious books.  Coincidentally, this all  occurred to me around the same time I gave up Christianity.

 

I still like the Dead, but that was one aspect of them that I wasn't able to stomach. 

I, and many others I know, do the same thing with Seinfeld lines.

[jw harding]

As a one time deadhead, I think the thing that caused me to jump ship was the way other deadheads would use the lyrics the way many Christians use bible verses.  No matter the scenario, if there was a group of deadheads around, someone would spout a song lyric as if it was wisdom passed down from on high.  And like many Christians, it was too often a smokescreen to hide poor behavior.  A lot of the lyrics were good, but It was juggalo level annoying to me.  I've tried to convince myself that I'm just being cynical and that this was something that happened organically and was outside of the band's control, but there were shelves full of officially sanctioned Grateful Dead books in every bookstore when the Dead were a going concern (I owned a few of them) that encouraged this type of fandom, and had lyrics as pull quotes on every page.  Exactly like what you see in religious books.  Coincidentally, this all  occurred to me around the same time I gave up Christianity.

 

I still like the Dead, but that was one aspect of them that I wasn't able to stomach. 

Hard not to fall into hero worship with Garcia and this band. The concerts and the songs provide peak moments and transcendent experiences. Scholars from Joseph Campbell to Stanley Krippner have compared the band to modern day Shamans. But there was a dark side to it all, which some people choose to block out. I tend to see it as sacred while not taking it too seriously. There are weird obsessive fans of any great band, so don't think it's something exclusive to Deadheads. I've said it before, but the heads on this message board seem to have the most wide eyed and reasoned view of the band. Go to ratdog, philzone, or other dead oriented message boards, the results will vary greatly. 

[Mr. Heartbreak]

 Go to ratdog, philzone, or other dead oriented message boards, the results will vary greatly. 

 

"Jerry Christmas and Happy Bob Weir!" 

[jff]

"Jerry Christmas and Happy Bob Weir!" 

 

Haha, yeah, that kind of thing.   Every now and then I'll look at comments on something Dead related on FB, and without fail, numerous people start their posts with "HEY NOW!."  A phrase Bob sang in Iko Iko.  SMH. 

[Sun Caught Fire]

As a one time deadhead, I think the thing that caused me to jump ship was the way other deadheads would use the lyrics the way many Christians use bible verses. No matter the scenario, if there was a group of deadheads around, someone would spout a song lyric as if it was wisdom passed down from on high. And like many Christians, it was too often a smokescreen to hide poor behavior. A lot of the lyrics were good, but It was juggalo level annoying to me. I've tried to convince myself that I'm just being cynical and that this was something that happened organically and was outside of the band's control, but there were shelves full of officially sanctioned Grateful Dead books in every bookstore when the Dead were a going concern (I owned a few of them) that encouraged this type of fandom, and had lyrics as pull quotes on every page. Exactly like what you see in religious books. Coincidentally, this all occurred to me around the same time I gave up Christianity.

 

I still like the Dead, but that was one aspect of them that I wasn't able to stomach.

 

I guess it depends on the Deadheads one encounters. What you describe would have driven me crazy but in the 41+ years since the first of my 209 Grateful Dead shows I can report that I never once had a similar experience.it was always much more about the music and the live concert experience than the lyrics, though there are some really good ones of course. 30 years ago since the only time I saw them on New Year's, 12/31/88, and what a blast that was.

[worldrecordplayer]

Hard not to fall into hero worship with Garcia and this band. The concerts and the songs provide peak moments and transcendent experiences. Scholars from Joseph Campbell to Stanley Krippner have compared the band to modern day Shamans. But there was a dark side to it all, which some people choose to block out. I tend to see it as sacred while not taking it too seriously. There are weird obsessive fans of any great band, so don't think it's something exclusive to Deadheads. I've said it before, but the heads on this message board seem to have the most wide eyed and reasoned view of the band. Go to ratdog, philzone, or other dead oriented message boards, the results will vary greatly.

Exactly the reasons I’ve always stayed away from philzone, etc. I miss the DOS days of The WELL. Don’t get me wrong, I totally get the enormous psychic draw of the Dead scene, but I don’t live my life according to quotes from the lyrics nor have any of my GD friends or other fellow travelers I’ve hung with along the way. There’s a lot more to the Dead and the community than that sort of thing.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Lammycat]

Listening to this during lunch break: 12.1.66 ( about 3 weeks before the day I was born!). Pretty wild stuff. "Deep Elementary Blues," "The lindy," etc. Even early staples like Minglewood, BIODTL, etc.....

 

The Matrix, S.F.:
https://archive.org/details/gd66-12-01.sbd.ladner.8575.sbeok.shnf/gd66-12-01d2t05.shn

[winterland121072]

meanwhile...back in 1979...specifically on 31 October...the band played a monster Eyes of the World...

[Lammycat]

meanwhile...back in 1979...specifically on 31 October...the band played a monster Eyes of the World...

No doubt! love that Eyes.

 

The Jack Straw opener the previous night is a beast, too. It's got the "we used to play for silver, now we play for Clive" verse, too (though the "we used to play for acid, now we play for Clive" line tossed out a few times in this era was more fun).

[winterland121072]

I love the feedback blasts as the post-eyes evaporates into drums...almost spooky...

 

No doubt! love that Eyes.

 

The Jack Straw opener the previous night is a beast, too. It's got the "we used to play for silver, now we play for Clive" verse, too (though the "we used to play for acid, now we play for Clive" line tossed out a few times in this era was more fun).

[mountain bed]

I would be remiss if I didn't mention that 40 years ago yesterday was a REALLY hot set of music. It's one of the best of the last 6 weeks of the Keith & Donna Era. Yes, yes, I know. The Miracle > Shakedown opener. It's undeniably good. But I'm here to talk about the Playin into the Drums > Jam > Playin Reprise. 40+ minutes of Essential Dead. 

 

Following the lyrics Jerry goes right into some inspired extreme noodling, which goes on for nearly 15 minutes. Jerry doesn't want to stop! Eventually he does and The Devils immediately go with a Middle Eastern feel that reminds me of 12/30/78 with Hamza. Jerry and Bob dig it and come back out for a jam that is like a hash den in Morocco or somewhere similar. Finally the Reprise comes and it's good and celebratory. It always amazes me to read about how extremely dysfunctional and unhappy the band was at this time - you sure wouldn't know it from this example. This is the consecrated fucking noodling of the gods. 

 

https://archive.org/details/gd1979-01-15.111592.mtx.chappell.sb32.flac16/gd79-01-15s2t06.flac