More on the "controversy"

[EliotRosewater]

Wait a cotton pickin' minute there, Barbara.....there were prostitutes?

 

I don

[Thanatos]

I just played one of these ads backwards, and Jeff can clearly be heard saying "VW is bigger than Jesus!"

[mfwahl]

 

Please don't cry / We're designed to die

[napoleon]

i've been gone for a week, and don't want to read through all 43 pages... but do we still get free ice cream if we hit 50 pages?

[entropy]

Does anyone remember when Taco Bell was going to give everyone free tacos if the falling satellite landed on that floating tarp they randomly threw in the ocean?

 

Damn. I wish that happened.

[napoleon]

Does anyone remember when Taco Bell was going to give everyone free tacos if the falling satellite landed on that floating tarp they randomly threw in the ocean?

 

Damn. I wish that happened.

 

hahahahha i remember that.

 

at the nashville predators games, if they score more than 5 goals everyone gets free tacos.

[LouieB]

From the back page of the Entertainment section in the Chicago Trib today.

 

LouieB

POP MACHINE

Does VW deal make Wilco a sellout?

 

By Mark Caro

Tribune entertainment reporter

Published June 10, 2007

 

We've played the "Is this a sellout?" game several times in Pop Machine, but this latest round may be the most puzzling.

 

The subject was Chicago's own beloved Wilco, a band known for doing things its own way, always expanding its boundaries, never repeating itself or catering to fashion. Now Wilco has a new album out, the relatively low-key and lilting "Sky Blue Sky," and songs from it are appearing in Volkswagen TV commercials.

 

A message on the band's Web site explains:

 

"With the commercial radio airplay route getting more difficult for many bands (including Wilco); we see this as another way to get the music out there. ... [T]he band gets paid for this. And we feel okay about VWs. Several of us even drive them."

 

The Web site also notes that Wilco leader Jeff Tweedy previously appeared in an Apple Computer ad, a Spanish phone company ad used the band's music, and "Wilco have licensed hundreds of songs to television shows and films worldwide." Two "Sky Blue Sky" songs have appeared in the VW ads so far -- "You Are My Face" and the bonus track "The Thanks I Get" -- but the plan is for five or six to be used, according to the Wilco Web site.

 

You may recall that Moby had his big commercial breakthrough after letting advertisers use several songs from his album "Play." You may also recall that Sting cemented his reputation as a rich, smug such-and-such when he let "Desert Rose" become the soundtrack to him lounging in the back of a Jaguar. Earlier this year John Mellencamp suffered disastrous album sales after the blitzkrieg marketing assault of his Chevy Truck ad/single, "Our Country."

 

So it was logical to ask of Wilco's VW ads: Is this a sellout?

 

Sixty-eight percent of about 150 Pop Machine readers voted no.

 

To which I respond: Huh?

 

I mean, you can choose to sympathize with the decision -- Wilco's music remains unknown to much of the mainstream -- but selling songs to car ads is by definition a sellout. You're accepting money in exchange for letting someone repurpose your art. What was conceived as personal expression is now a vehicle (so to speak) for selling cars.

 

Maybe the ads will be cool. Maybe they'll draw attention to Wilco, a band that certainly deserves it. But when you introduce new songs to the public via ads -- as opposed to selling them after they've become "classic" (a slightly different kind of sellout popular among aging rockers) -- you've given up any control of people's primary associations with your music.

 

I say this as someone who still thinks Carly Simon's "Anticipation" is about ketchup. I also still associate U2's "Vertigo" with iPods despite the popular justification that those ads were promoting a music-delivery system, not an unrelated product, so the band hadn't truly sold out. I assume a similar argument will be made in defense of those Verizon ads featuring Prince's new single, "Guitar."

 

I'd argue that writing specific ad jingles would be less troublesome, just as I'm not bothered by David Lynch's directing commercials so long as he's not using clips of "Blue Velvet."

 

The lines can get squiggly, but I'd draw this one: Licensing a song to a movie or TV show is, ideally, artistic interpretation (Wilco's songs are a perfect fit in Alison Maclean's 1999 indie drama "Jesus' Son"). Licensing one for an ad is commerce.

 

You can make pragmatic calculations about gaining exposure for your art, but when you collect that check, you're giving up something in return. That's just how it works.

 

OK, I'll come down from my horse and buggy now.

Copyright

[j4lackey]

Y'know, this thread's a grower.

[mountain bed]

This thread: 857 posts & counting

jnick's thread: 816

 

wow. just wow.

[MrRain422]

Marc Caro used to write for the love of writing. Now he writes for a newspaper. What a sellout.

[H-Bomb Henry]

IF this has been mentioned I apologize. I heard "What Light" on AMC last night. It was an advertisement for the movies that get played on the channel.

 

Wilco has to feed a lot of mouths. To me there is no harm in selling your music. However my Wilco live days will be over if I have to go to an arena or an ampitheater to watch the band.

[bjorn_skurj]

Marc Caro used to write for the love of writing. Now he writes for a newspaper. What a sellout.

Ha! A friend of mine has this quote from Moliere at the bottom of her e-mails - "Writing is like prostitution. First you do it for love, then for a few friends, then for money."

[GeckoRlz]

From the back page of the Entertainment section in the Chicago Trib today.

 

LouieB

POP MACHINE

...you've given up any control of people's primary associations with your music.

 

You can make pragmatic calculations about gaining exposure for your art, but when you collect that check, you're giving up something in return. That's just how it works.

 

Bingo. This is my main gripe with the whole deal.

 

Also, I look forward to the day when I'm at a Wilco show and someone shouts, "play that VW song!" (maybe it will be me) and seeing how Jeff reacts to THAT one...

[caliber66]

Bingo. This is my main gripe with the whole deal.

 

Also, I look forward to the day when I'm at a Wilco show and someone shouts, "play that VW song!" (maybe it will be me) and seeing how Jeff reacts to THAT one...

I don't buy the "giving up control of people's primary associations with your music" argument. You do that the second you release a song, either through a leak, on an album or as a single. People will make their own associations regardless of how the song is released - licensing it for use in a commercial only creates one more out of an infinite number of possibilities.

[Sir Stewart]

By Mark Caro

Tribune entertainment reporter

Published June 10, 2007

 

You may recall that Moby had his big commercial breakthrough after letting advertisers use several songs from his album "Play."

 

"Several"? I think "all of the" is the correct term there.

[Lammycat]

I don't buy the "giving up control of people's primary associations with your music" argument. You do that the second you release a song, either through a leak, on an album or as a single. People will make their own associations regardless of how the song is released - licensing it for use in a commercial only creates one more out of an infinite number of possibilities.

Although the assertion that John Cougarcamp took a huge hit on record sales due to the extremely overplayed and annoying "Our Country" for the truck ad is telling. I'd be willing to bet that there are Cougar fans who have been turned off to him completely because of the incessant playing of that sound clip. If all one can think of when hearing him now is the truck...well, I think he's damaged his career to an extent.

 

I just think there's some truth that hearing a song (or part of it) repeatedly in a commercial will generally replace any former primary association with that song, or possibly even the band. This isn't to say I agree or disagree with Wilco's use of their own tunes, just that there are some real and potential consequences that may occur that may not be favorable to the band or some fans in the end.

[Atticus]

Also, I look forward to the day when I'm at a Wilco show and someone shouts, "play that VW song!" (maybe it will be me) and seeing how Jeff reacts to THAT one...

 

We hope for different things out of a wilco show

[GeckoRlz]

I don't buy the "giving up control of people's primary associations with your music" argument. You do that the second you release a song, either through a leak, on an album or as a single. People will make their own associations regardless of how the song is released - licensing it for use in a commercial only creates one more out of an infinite number of possibilities.

 

Exactly - people can make their OWN associations when a song is released, but when it's placed in the context of an advertisement it's a whole lot more limiting. I can't tell you how many threads/stories I've seen on these boards about the first time people heard a Wilco song. That first impression is crucial, often the most emotionally impacting and lasting impression. I think it's unjustifiable that the band would allow that to take place in the context of a TV ad, the most emotionally lifeless and individuality stifling format I can think of.

[Col. Hapablap]

Although the assertion that John Cougarcamp took a huge hit on record sales due to the extremely overplayed and annoying "Our Country" for the truck ad is telling. I'd be willing to bet that there are Cougar fans who have been turned off to him completely because of the incessant playing of that sound clip. If all one can think of when hearing him now is the truck...well, I think he's damaged his career to an extent.

 

I just think there's some truth that hearing a song (or part of it) repeatedly in a commercial will generally replace any former primary association with that song, or possibly even the band. This isn't to say I agree or disagree with Wilco's use of their own tunes, just that there are some real and potential consequences that may occur that may not be favorable to the band or some fans in the end.

 

 

I think that even Mellencamp's die-hard fans were pissed off at him for the whole Chevy deal because, like Tom Petty and Neil Young, he had been saying over and over for years that people shouldn't license their songs for commercials. Then after he gave up "Our Country" to Chevy, he was quoted in a NY Times interview as saying something along the lines of "I still don't feel that people should use their songs in commercials." As a casual Mellencamp fan I lost a lot of respect for him after that. He came across as the worst kind of hypocrite. John Lennon once said:"If it don't feel right, don't do it." I don't feel any anger at Wilco for doing the VW ad, since it doesn't seem like this is any kind of a reversal of the band's core beliefs. They have done this before, its just that now people are noticing it.

[caliber66]

Although the assertion that John Cougarcamp took a huge hit on record sales due to the extremely overplayed and annoying "Our Country" for the truck ad is telling. I'd be willing to bet that there are Cougar fans who have been turned off to him completely because of the incessant playing of that sound clip. If all one can think of when hearing him now is the truck...well, I think he's damaged his career to an extent.

 

I just think there's some truth that hearing a song (or part of it) repeatedly in a commercial will generally replace any former primary association with that song, or possibly even the band. This isn't to say I agree or disagree with Wilco's use of their own tunes, just that there are some real and potential consequences that may occur that may not be favorable to the band or some fans in the end.

Oh, I absolutely agree that there's a chance of polluting the waters (the Johnny Cougar/Bob Seeger Chevy commercials being a great example) by licensing a song for a commercial. As I have yet to see a single Wilco VW commercial (during a span in which I've seen/heard various "Our Country" spots literally dozens of times), I honestly don't expect there to be the type of saturation necessary to "spoil" the song for any but those who are most obstinately against Wilco's music being used in ads for any reason. I just don't feel it's going to automatically color people's perceptions of/associations with the song unless they allow it to, since the ads aren't pervasive enough to really get in there and take hold.

[boywiththorninside]

Thanks for posting the Tribune article.

 

The point that resonated with me was the difference between licensing a song that is already a "classic" and introducing the song to the public by way of an ad. I might roll my eyes if Wilco sold a YHF or Being There song to a commercial, but I don't think I would be whining about the ads compromising my personal experience with the music. With the older Wilco material I've already formed associations with the music that an ad could not change. However, with Sky Blue Sky still new to me, the only association I've been able to form is with the ad. As of right now, Sky Blue Sky is the "VW album" to me. Over time, I imagine this will change.

[caliber66]

Exactly - people can make their OWN associations when a song is released, but when it's placed in the context of an advertisement it's a whole lot more limiting. I can't tell you how many threads/stories I've seen on these boards about the first time people heard a Wilco song. That first impression is crucial, often the most emotionally impacting and lasting impression. I think it's unjustifiable that the band would allow that to take place in the context of a TV ad, the most emotionally lifeless and individuality stifling format I can think of.

I think Jeff and the band should be in charge (as they are) of deciding whether or not it's okay for them to "allow" a fan's first impression of one of their songs to be from a commercial. None of my business. I heard all of the songs first on the internet stream and have listened to them a bunch of times since. Frankly, it means nothing at all to me what other people's associations with the song are. Not even a little tiny bit. All that matters is my own relationship with the song, which remains unchanged and undamaged.

[Lammycat]

The point that resonated with me was the difference between licensing a song that is already a "classic" and introducing the song to the public by way of an ad. I might roll my eyes if Wilco sold a YHF or Being There song to a commercial, but I don't think I would be whining about the ads compromising my personal experience with the music. With the older Wilco material I've already formed associations with the music that an ad could not change. However, with Sky Blue Sky still new to me, the only association I've been able to form is with the ad. As of right now, Sky Blue Sky is the "VW album" to me. Over time, I imagine this will change.

See, I'm not sure I make the distinction in my head between whether a "classic" or a "new" tune is being used. Maybe I'm feeble of mind, but sometimes when I here "The Weight" by The Band I don't automatically flash to The Last Waltz (movie) anymore, but sometimes to the cell phone t.v. commercial of the guy driving down the CA coast to hook up with his chick. I don't know, it is what it is I guess.

 

Frankly, it means nothing at all to me what other people's associations with the song are. Not even a little tiny bit. All that matters is my own relationship with the song, which remains unchanged and undamaged.

A solid point, too. I've yet to see/hear the VW ad, as well.

[EL the Famous]

Again, I find that piece a little flawed in that it doesn't hold any accountabilty for the listener itself as to how they interpret the song. The song itself at no time has ever changed from it's original composition and recording...what has changed is the listener's perception of it by it's use in the ad.

 

All this hooplah and I have yet to actually even see the ad actually on TV...and I actually do watch my fair share of it.

[auctioneer69]

With all due respect, I think a lot of posts have been very parochial and myopic. Or more pointedly written by ungrateful bastards. Jeff and the band have every right to make money from their efforts in any way they see fit. It's one thing to take a standard and use it in an advert. For god's sake how much more money does Pete Townsend (several commercials) and Paul McCartney (Fidelity Investments) need to make? Did U2 who were guaranteed massive airplay when "Vertigo" was released in 2004 need to license it to Apple? But it's another thing entirely for Wilco, a mid-level band, to use a couple of new songs in the same way. They make some money and increase the chances of many people who might be completely unaware of them being turned on to some of the greatest music made in the last ten years. As for all of those people who feel that these songs will forever be ruined by being associated with VW: get over it! Did you feel the same disappointment when Wilco streamed "Sky Blue Sky" for two months online or when you heard them live on a downloaded torrent months or even years before the new record came out? Will you be similarly disappointed to see them performed live in a relatively intimate theatre instead of the smaller basketball arena that Wilco could choose to play based on demand? Perhaps you were distressed that the first official version of "The Thanks I Get" was a complimentary one provided with Jeff's solo DVD? It's ironic that so many people seem so precious about "art" that Wilco seem only too happy to provide in many other ways than the standard format of releasing a CD every two or three years. Moreover, as a massive music fan, it's shitty to see so many people completely forget the generosity of one of the few bands who have always strived to treat their fans with the utmost respect.