New Election Thread

[Gobias Industries]

Well, the oil lobby already has Palin safely in their pocket. Wants to drill in the refuges, married an oilman...

[Central Scrutinizer]

right. and they ran on I'm black and it's our turn (yes, I know that's a serious over simplification) and it's the

thing that separates Obama from that sort of run. It revelatory for a black candiadate to run on issues and not

race in a national election. I'm still not nearly as revved up about him though as I don't

have much faith in the political system as it is. I think until a viable third party completely turns the whole

thing on its head we're stuck with varying shades of gray.

Ron Paul had the right idea -- Nader before him. If you create a strong enough approach, get 5 percent of the result, you guarantee yourself federal funding the next year. Problem is, campaign funding, through special interests, is so over the top in this day and age that a 3rd party taking on the 2 parties would be like a mom-and-pop company trying to take on Microsoft.

 

The libertarians have the most advanced organization, but hasn't made much traction. It couldn't be a single candidate running, it would have to be an organized approach, so that you could sliver into government through a seat here and there. Come swing votes, that elected official would have strength of negotiation.

 

The knock has always been that a 3rd party always unlevels the field for one of the 2 existing parties more than the other. Nader buggered Gore. Paul ... well, he had no impact on McCain. But he and his minions made a big honking amount of signs.

[ShuckOwens]

Well, the oil lobby already has Palin safely in their pocket. Wants to drill in the refuges, married an oilman...

Who doesn't the oil lobby have influence with? They spread their considerable pull on both sides of the aisle.

[mfwahl]

Forgive me, but as someone who has grown up in an increasingly racially diverse area where it simply isn't an issue, I think the impact of Obama's nomination is a little lost on me. I've never really seen race as an issue in my life.

Is this like that Stephen Colbert bit that you can't tell what race people are? I'm sure if this is hilarious or disturbingly offensive.

[Gobias Industries]

Who doesn't the oil lobby have influence with? They spread their considerable pull on both sides of the aisle.

 

"In their pocket" is considerably different than "influence." We can expect Palin to be an oil spokeswoman inside Washington, using her clout whenever she can to get a good vote for oil. You can't say the same for some of the others. They receive money, yes, but it's not the only thing that's dictating their vote.

[Central Scrutinizer]

"In their pocket" is considerably different than "influence." We can expect Palin to be an oil spokeswoman inside Washington, using her clout whenever she can to get a good vote for oil. You can't say the same for some of the others. They receive money, yes, but it's not the only thing that's dictating their vote.

Technically she has more "influence" as a Senator (one vote) than as pro tem.

[bjorn_skurj]

thieves and looters are far from my favorite people, but "they should be shot on sight"? a little lack of imagination there, sir. and if assault rifles and ammunition are the answers, why, i'll vote for bush's third term.

I believe that anyone who takes advantage of a natural disaster to loot and steal is in gross violation of the social contract at a time it needs to be adhered to more than ever. In a situation like Katrina, however, the expropriation of food, water and other emergency supplies had to be done because the government had failed so dramatically to hold up its end of the social contract. So, I dunno.

 

Palin may be a great pick for McCain. Unlike Biden, who is not a bad guy, but not really that interesting, she makes an impact. She might and should get a massive amount of scrutiny - Alaska GOP politics are not the cleanest on earth and with McCain's age, she stands a better-than-normal chance of being president (either acting or fer real).

[sweetheart-mine]

Furs dead man..where's PETA?

i'm with ya on this, but dead fur is far from dead in alaska.

 

at this point (still shortly after learning of mccain's pick), i'm pretty much reeling at his cynicism. i had no idea it was this deep. also, the wackiness, the tokenism, the -- well, it's probably a really courageous move, in a perverse and suicidal sort of way. this makes bush senior's pick of quayle look standard.

 

 

p.s. doesn't this pretty much kill mccain's chances of attracting independents in november?

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

Honestly, why is this pick more cynical than any other VP pick would be?

[solace]

It's a good question that we're debating whether a working mom can handle what has always been a man's job? Aren't we all trying to make progress here?

 

no i know, i didn't say it was fair, but it's a valid concern, not even speaking politicially

[Central Scrutinizer]

I believe that anyone who takes advantage of a natural disaster to loot and steal is in gross violation of the social contract at a time it needs to be adhered to more than ever. In a situation like Katrina, however, the expropriation of food, water and other emergency supplies had to be done because the government had failed so dramatically to hold up its end of the social contract. So, I dunno.

My family went without power for five days in the aftermath of Charley. I didn't sleep in that time, worrying about every car that crept slowly through the neighborhood in the middle of the night -- windows open, exposed because of the heat.

 

We certainly saw the worst of society in New Orleans, so I'm conflicted on this issue.

[bjorn_skurj]

Sarah Palin is a lot smarter than Dan Quayle.

[Central Scrutinizer]

Sarah Palin is a lot smarter than Dan Quayle.

My baked potatoe is smarter than Dan Quayle.

[Hixter]

Well, the oil lobby already has Palin safely in their pocket. Wants to drill in the refuges, married an oilman...

 

I don't think you can call a blue-collar worker on an hourly wage an "oilman." Unless the guy who changes my oil at Jiffy Lube is also an oilman.

[sweetheart-mine]

I believe that anyone who takes advantage of a natural disaster to loot and steal is in gross violation of the social contract at a time it needs to be adhered to more than ever. In a situation like Katrina, however, the expropriation of food, water and other emergency supplies had to be done because the government had failed so dramatically to hold up its end of the social contract. So, I dunno.

 

Palin may be a great pick for McCain. Unlike Biden, who is not a bad guy, but not really that interesting, she makes an impact. She might and should get a massive amount of scrutiny - Alaska GOP politics are not the cleanest on earth and with McCain's age, she stands a better-than-normal chance of being president (either acting or fer real).

i agree with your first paragraph, both points.

 

the effects of palin on the mccain campaign and election in general are bound to be interesting. whatever comes out of the close scrutiny she'll get will be fascinating, because she is totally new. mccain's age is probably the biggest factor that makes her selection so cynical, to my mind: people literally are going to need to envision her as president as they evaluate her, and how successful will that make his campaign? i think the surprise is kind of fun for people now, but looking ahead in a serious way, yikes.

[M. (hristine]

My baked potatoe is smarter than Dan Quayle.

[Edie]

I have to say that if the intent of the Palin pick was to get people talking about something other than BO, it's working. However, it really won't matter a week or so after the convention.

[MrRain422]

So is McCain abandoning the "experience" meme or what?

[Analogman]

Tenspeed and Brown Shoe vs. McMillan & Wife

[bobbob1313]

Is this like that Stephen Colbert bit that you can't tell what race people are? I'm sure if this is hilarious or disturbingly offensive.

 

Come on down to South Florida. Race is not an issue outside of pockets of ethnic neighborhoods like Little Havana and Little Haiti. On the whole, any given rich or poor neighborhood will have an equal number of blacks, hispanics, and whites.

 

And I think nobody can argue that for my generation, race is almost not an issue, really. The only people I can think of who see race as an issue in day to day life are, unfortunately, young black kids who try to use their race as a crutch, as an excuse for why bad things happen. I work with a kid who is just a lazy asshole, and everyone hates him, and he tries to play the race card every day, ignoring the fact that we have like 7 other black kids that nobody has any problems with.

 

If you live in South Florida, you don't have much of a leg to stand on when calling racism. I'm not sure about the rest of the country, but I feel very strongly that my generation doesn't see things along racial lines very much anymore.

[Beltmann]

So is McCain abandoning the "experience" meme or what?

I think he's abandoned every tactic other than "Let's snare as many disenchanted women as we can!" Without that potential, there is no way Palin would have even made the short list, which is why the tokenism seems so cynical... and yet, it might prove brilliant.

 

Have to admire the gambler in McCain. This pick could be a game-changer, but it could also turn out to be a debacle of the first rank.

[solace]

If you live in South Florida, you don't have much of a leg to stand on when calling racism. I'm not sure about the rest of the country, but I feel very strongly that my generation doesn't see things along racial lines very much anymore.

 

i can tell you that kids growing up still today in Montana (not as racist as a lot of deep south places, but still) aren't as lucky as you.... sadly

 

both Sara and her husband are union members?

there goes the right wingers support! UNIONS = BAAAAAAAD MMKAY?

 

if adding a vagina to the ticket is all that is needed, Obama should have just come out as a hermaphrodite...

[Sir Stewart]

Tenspeed and Brown Shoe vs. McMillan & Wife

Awesome.

[Central Scrutinizer]

Come on down to South Florida. Race is not an issue outside of pockets of ethnic neighborhoods like Little Havana and Little Haiti. On the whole, any given rich or poor neighborhood will have an equal number of blacks, hispanics, and whites.

 

And I think nobody can argue that for my generation, race is almost not an issue, really. The only people I can think of who see race as an issue in day to day life are, unfortunately, young black kids who try to use their race as a crutch, as an excuse for why bad things happen. I work with a kid who is just a lazy asshole, and everyone hates him, and he tries to play the race card every day, ignoring the fact that we have like 7 other black kids that nobody has any problems with.

 

If you live in South Florida, you don't have much of a leg to stand on when calling racism. I'm not sure about the rest of the country, but I feel very strongly that my generation doesn't see things along racial lines very much anymore.

I think that is the case for most metro areas -- certainly with a few exceptions. And it is the exceptions that cause the distortion of the way things are because that's what people focus on in order to reinforce their beliefs.

 

Tenspeed and Brown Shoe vs. McMillan & Wife

Wouldn't that make McCain ... gay?

[Edie]

I think he's abandoned every tactic other than "Let's snare as many disenchanted women as we can!" Without that potential, there is no way Palin would have even made the short list, which is why the pick seems so cynical... and yet, it might prove brilliant.

 

Have to admire the gambler in McCain. This pick could be a game-changer, but it could also turn out to be a debacle of the first rank.

 

To your first point -- agreed, though I harken back to '84 when Mondale picked Ferraro, trying to galvanize/motivate women voters. It basically backfired since Mondale seemed so inept and she was no better (and had her own family ethics issues as I recall).

 

As to your second -- agreed again, though I am thinking that it more likely will turn out to be the latter. It sure will make the VP debate interesting. I can hear the wheels turning in the Obama campaign -- trying to get G2 on her will not be easy, as there just isn't that much to be had.