Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 One thing that really struck me this week that Widmore was APOLOGETIC for what he was going to ask Desmond to do. He has either had a change of heart or his actions toward Desmond in the past were either trying to protect Penny or put Desmond on a path toward the Island and his destiny. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mystik Spiral Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 He has either had a change of heart or his actions toward Desmond in the past were either trying to protect Penny or put Desmond on a path toward the Island and his destiny. It's been my assumption since we found out that Desmond is "special" that Widmore's treatment of him wasn't dislike, but a plan to get him to the island. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jcroach Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 I've been trying to wrap my head around just how much Widmore and Eloise know in the alt? Here's the best I can figure. They were both on the island for a very long time at least from the 50's through the incident ('77). So with that knowledge we know that they had run ins with Locke, Jack, Kate Sayid and yes even Eloise killing Daniel. The next part may be a stretch, but if she took Daniel's journal as we saw her do, she would also have knowledge of 2004, 815, the freighter, etc. Assuming 1977 is where the divergent timeline split off after the incident, she would still know all kinds of vital information about the island and the other timeline (the real one). This lends a lot into both her and Charles weird conversations with Desmond. Hummmm...interesting. I was thinking this morning that Eloise, like John Locke, has a interest in keeping the Alt timeline. In the main timeline she killed her own son. In the Alt, he's still alive. And Locke because of Helen still being with him. Locke and Helen also make me think that they might show their wedding in the Alt. This would allow the writers to bring in Anthony Cooper and Boone and Shannon. remember when Helen was talking to the wedding planner on the phone in "The Substitute"? I bet she was talking to Boone or his Mom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouisvilleGreg Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 It was cool seeing Charlie and some of the others in the alt, but I for one don't care to see Boone or Shannon. At this point I really want full steam ahead action. The upcoming Hurley ep looks to be a good follow up to this week's very strong ep. I think yr right in that some want the alt to be the main timeline, especially Eloise, as I said I think she knows that she killed Daniel, and is glad that it has been reversed for now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
augurus Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 Does anyone else also think that Sayid will not stand by MIB's side due to revelation of Happily Ever After? By that, I imply that if Desmond has control or understands the transfer of thoughts/memories/intents, then perhaps Desmond will inspire Sayid with some bright ass hope. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mystik Spiral Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 Does anyone else also think that Sayid will not stand by MIB's side due to revelation of Happily Ever After? By that, I imply that if Desmond has control or understands the transfer of thoughts/memories/intents, then perhaps Desmond will inspire Sayid with some bright ass hope. I've been thinking about that too. At first it made me real nervous just how easily Desmond went off with Sayid, but now ITA with your analysis. It was interesting that Sayid let Zoe go... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
insideoutoflove Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 I don't know exactly what I mean by this, but I get the feeling that Widmore and Eloise are kind of like the Jacob/MIB of the Alt timeline. Does that make any sense? Or maybe it's not that extreme, and just a matter of one wanting the alt universe and one not. But it seems pretty clear that Widmore kept Eloise in the dark about who his right hand man was. I watched the Eloise/Desmond interaction again, and the tone in her voice leads me to believe she didn't know that Desmond was who had been working for Widmore. "Oh of course Mr. Hume, Charles has told me so much about you, it's a travesty we haven't met before...Well, it's about time." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 Several things to think about: Who is Penny's Mother?Who is David's Mother?Why is Desmond different?Was John marked from the beginning? (Regaining the use of his legs?)Is the Cave (where the MIB showed Sawyer the names on the wall)Jacob's or the MIB's? Jacob has the Lighthouse and the room under the Statue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted April 12, 2010 Author Share Posted April 12, 2010 New show: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mystik Spiral Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 I believe the cave is MIB's, not Jacob's. There has been speculation that David's mother is Penny - which I don't believe, especially after last week's epi, or the Gabrielle woman who's father Jack tried to save. I don't believe that either... David is how old in the ALT, about 12 or 13? So he was born in the early-mid 90's, probably. I think his mother IS Sarah, we don't really know for sure when Jack was married, but it's definitely possible. Remember when she thought she was pregnant and took a home PT just to find out she wasn't? Maybe in the ALT she was. I am DYING to know who Penny's mother is. I suppose it could turn out that it's nobody we know/inconsequential... but we know she exists in the ALT, so did Widmore and Eloise not meet each other until later in life in the ALT? Or did they just not marry until later? Now that I'm thinking about it, it's a mystery in both timelines, since Penny is obviously older than Daniel, but Charles and Eloise met on the island. Good questions! New show: I'd watch it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
u2roolz Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 Several things to think about: Who is Penny's Mother? I can't think of anyone else besides Eloise. I know that Penny & Daniel are half siblings, but maybe it's not important who her mother is.Who is David's Mother? I ended up seeing this spoiler on the Dark UFO site. It's quite a surprise considering what we've seen unfold since last season. Why is Desmond different? Well, he was closest to the Hatch explosion than anyone else. His character reminds me a lot of Dr. Manhattan from Watchmen (which is a fave of Lindelof). In fact, this past week's episode reminded me of how Dr. Manhattan came to be. Was John marked from the beginning? (Regaining the use of his legs?) Who is to say that that is in fact John Locker in Season 1. I'm holding out for a surprise twist that it is actually the Man In Black. Not really, but that would be quite the curveball. Is the Cave (where the MIB showed Sawyer the names on the wall)Jacob's or the MIB's? Jacob has the Lighthouse and the room under the Statue. The cave I believe is MIB's. It seems like he copied the names from Jacob's Lighthouse. Then again, I'm quite concerned that both Jacob & MIB are pretty flexible in being both good & evil and in the gray area. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPN18GBk7AUDr. Manhattan has the ability to see & experience the past, present, & future simultaneously which makes what he does in the overall storyline interesting because he lets certain people act a certain way with his knowledge. So is he preventing or creating the future when he decides to do something or do nothing. Although, in the story he actually doesn't do anything which makes his character indifferent to humanity. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mystik Spiral Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 So maybe Charles is Penny's adoptive father? Interesting... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 Whoah. Answers...they be coming. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tongue-tied Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 hooray for blowing up hilariously obnoxious characters. boo for blowing up interesting, emotionally involved characters. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
u2roolz Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 I loved the closing juxtaposition of MIB/Desmond & Desmond/Locke in the Flash Sideways. It makes me wonder if Flash Sideways Desmond thinks that Locke is actually the MIB and not actually John Locke. Talk about mistaken identity! Unless, if he needs to kill the Flash Sideways Locke, so that the Original Locke can come back at the end of the series. But that doesn't make sense either. It seems like he's ruining it for the MIB. (edit: Perhaps If there's no Flash Sideways Locke to convince to come back to the Island, then the MIB needs to find someone similar to him to find "The Loophole".)(Edit Part Deux: Maybe this is how John gets to see Jack in the Flash Sideways) Michael on the Island: Very touching scenes. Libby in the Flash Sideways: I thought that we'd see her once on the Island before we saw her in the Flash Sideways. Perhaps, she has moved on? The "Translucent" Red Herring A.K.A. What Kate Does episode: So?! Is anyone rethinking that episode in their head now that we've seen Desmond & Hurley's epiphanies? I know that that episode took a lot of shit from the fans, but I stood behind it for one reason: Kate was acting differently than we'd seen her and I think it may be that Aaron is her Penny/Libby. Or at least that part of her that she would like to see in the Flash Sideways moreso than being with Jack or Sawyer. Ilyana: Ah. Ah. Ah. Is Jacob visiting her in the hospital because she has burns from a stick of dynamite blowing her up to kingdom come and down to the tiki lounge? Maybe on the 2nd or 3rd go-round she only suffered severe burns. (I'm still thinking that they're all stuck in a loop) My Termite Sized Criticism: I wish that some of the "answers" were done more organically instead of having them spoon fed to the audience in a check mark like fashion a la Michael "explaining" the whispers in under 30 seconds to Hurley. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouisvilleGreg Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 So is it safe to assume that Desmond has full knowledge of both timelines in both timelines? His coyness with MIB on the island was due to the fact that he was right where he wanted to be, and he obviously ran him over in the alt having knowledge of what he was back on the island. the Hurley/Libby alt story was well done. Desmond is seemingly the key to everything right now.He's determined to throw the whole world off of its axis. Illana blowing up seemed sudden. There has been a lot of investment and development of her character for her to just explode. It'll be interesting to see how the MIB and original Losties being in the same place will play out. I'm still not convinced that MIB is totally evil, it's way too lazy to assume that. Another great one tonight. I feel as if we're really picking up steam now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mystik Spiral Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 Holy. Fuck. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. I just saw the epi and haven't had time to fully digest it yet, but... Ilana blowing up was a complete shock. Desmond being thrown down the well and Desmond running Locke over... it's like I could sense both moments coming but was still surprised when they happened. Is Des dead? I believe he does have knowledge of both timelines in both timelines. But if that fall down the damn well killed him, I am going to be one pissed off woman. Is Libby "special" in the same sense that Desmond is? The universes are definitely merging. I've been in the "Hurley is the key" camp for quite some time, could prove to be right. What made him lie about seeing Jacob? Why did he lead Frank, Sun & Jack to the MIB? Where are Ben & Miles going to end up in all this mess? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TCP Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 Hey Locke watch out for that car!!!! ...oh shit! Desmond was in clips of the next episode, holding onto the side of the well, and Sayid pointed a gun at him! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
u2roolz Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 Is Libby "special" in the same sense that Desmond is? The universes are definitely merging. I think a better question that you should be asking is what are the similarities between Libby & Charlie (from last week's episode)?They're both dead in the Original Timeline. It's possible that because of this their consciousness from that timeline has seeped into their Flash Sideways' minds. (edit:) Now with that in mind, it does lend some light to Desmond's actions toward Locke in the Flash Sideways. Maybe if John Locke passes onto the Island in the sun, MIB will need to find some new real estate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted April 14, 2010 Author Share Posted April 14, 2010 Lost’s Henry Ian Cusick on Desmond’s Big Episode and the Secrets of the Finale Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ordinary Beehive Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 I love that Hurley had a meeting with The Human Fund. I can only assume that's an homage to Seinfeld. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LouisvilleGreg Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 I'm more than a little worried about the fate of Richard, Ben and Miles now that they have split off on their own. They just don't seem ultimately crucial right now. I could be wrong, but Miles in particular may be the least important known character left. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IATTBYB Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 I love that Hurley had a meeting with The Human Fund. I can only assume that's an homage to Seinfeld.When I heard that, it was the first time I ever wished I had Tivo! I wasn't quite sure I heard it right and I thought it was freaking brilliant. I'm glad someone mentioned it on here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mystik Spiral Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 I think a better question that you should be asking is what are the similarities between Libby & Charlie (from last week's episode)?They're both dead in the Original Timeline. It's possible that because of this their consciousness from that timeline has seeped into their Flash Sideways' minds. Excellent point. I'd almost forgotten about Charlie remembering falling in love with Claire. I love that Hurley had a meeting with The Human Fund. I can only assume that's an homage to Seinfeld. I laughed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
insideoutoflove Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 So is it safe to assume that Desmond has full knowledge of both timelines in both timelines? His coyness with MIB on the island was due to the fact that he was right where he wanted to be, and he obviously ran him over in the alt having knowledge of what he was back on the island.Wait, really? That's not how I saw it at all. My interpretation was that Desmond is "showing" each person on the manifest (which he asked his driver to get at the end of the last episode) what Charlie "showed" him by nearly drowning him...Desmond ran Locke over to get him to see the flashes/memories that Charlie, Desmond, and Hurley have now had of their alternate lives. It didn't seem like animosity to me at all...he has adopted Charlie's view of things and is trying to make everyone see it. That's why he went to see Hurley. And when they cut to Locke's blank gaze at the end and then him kind of snapping to, I took it as him snapping back from his memory flashes. But maybe I'm way off...or it's a combination of the two? PS. Did anyone else think that episode made Desmond look a heck of a lot like Jacob? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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