Wilco DVD

[Dude]

Maybe I'll end up being the minority, but I personally wouldn't change the film, outside of maybe a different song selection. Most concert films suffer some criticism - even The Last Waltz isn't perfect, and Gimme Shelter is a fanstastic documentary and a so-so concert film. I think Ashes was a pretty good snapshot of the band right now and a bit of a window into what their touring experience is like, without getting dragged down into long-winded expository. I'm somewhat glad the film doesn't slow down into 2+ hours of narrative - which I think personally wouldn't have made for a great viewing experience. Most people are either going to want a greater exploration of the themes brought up in the film, or will have a "shut up and play" mentality, skipping ahead to the live performances. I think the film balances everything pretty well without being too indulgent in any specific area.

[trayanastasio]

My thoughts, recycled from a thread that has passed on.

 

"I went to the 9:30 screening last night at the IFC center.

 

Some notes:

 

The sound was spectacular for the screening, and I only hope that some of that translates to the DVD.

 

For my money, the film covers Wilco becoming the best live act in the country - the months following the Residency, when they really came together, engaged all the Wilco material, and teared through Sky Blue Sky. Having gone to the Residency and the DC show featured in the doc, it is quite the treat.

 

That being said, it's not the greatest of movies. Giving it the title "Ashes of American Flags" and billing it as a movie that explores a disappearing America sets the bar extremely high, and it's fair to say that it does not explore that theme or work on it beyond a few statements by Jeff, Pat, and John. It's somewhat upsetting that they don't go any further on this, at least when it comes to the venues played. More than anything, the film amounts to a really well-produced long version of something you would see on a DVD released to coincide with an album; little tastes of different tour stops interspersed with interviews. These guys did do the SBS DVD, after all.

 

In my opinion, the biggest flaw of the film is in the coverage. The filmmakers mentioned that they had 8 cameramen, though it seems like they really weren't directed properly: in several cases, it feels like everyone is going for the interesting, off kilter shot, which is wonderful in moderation, but not when it detracts from getting a full sense of the concert. The few wide shots or balcony overheads (The Ryman) are a welcomed relief from a claustrophobia that seems more accidental than deliberate.

 

And a final flaw: the filmmakers don't seem to get the importance of expressive editing, editing that understands the music, its changes and its peaks. There were a bunch of instances, for example, when something happened in the music - Nels took a solo, Jeff was about to sing a crucial line - and they instead featured another shot of something pretty unremarkable.

 

A lot of these negative reactions could be due to the fact that I saw it on a big screen, where I can confidently tell you the film does not belong

 

Problems aside, it's definitely worth buying. Really. The music is so damn good, the guys are hilarious, and some of the images are great."

[dondoboy]

Maybe I'll end up being the minority, but I personally wouldn't change the film, outside of maybe a different song selection. Most concert films suffer some criticism - even The Last Waltz isn't perfect, and Gimme Shelter is a fanstastic documentary and a so-so concert film. I think Ashes was a pretty good snapshot of the band right now and a bit of a window into what their touring experience is like, without getting dragged down into long-winded expository. I'm somewhat glad the film doesn't slow down into 2+ hours of narrative - which I think personally wouldn't have made for a great viewing experience. Most people are either going to want a greater exploration of the themes brought up in the film, or will have a "shut up and play" mentality, skipping ahead to the live performances. I think the film balances everything pretty well without being too indulgent in any specific area.

I agree with this 100%.

[Central Scrutinizer]

The funny thing is, neither do I. I'm mostly pissed off that services were NOT rendered. I'm going to be out of town when/if the package comes, missing the concert download window. If I wanted the fucking DVD a week from now, then that's when I'd buy it. If I want it early, I'd buy it early.

I ordered mine 3-18 and it's *supposed* to get her Monday. It is annoying. I'm sorry 1) that people are having some negative responses about the DVD, 2) that I read them before I watched it myself and 3) I didn't watch it before I read it because they wouldn't send me my DVD when they said it would. And I guess I shouldn't have read the comments.

 

Hopefully I'll get over the surlies before I watch it.

[NoOneKnowsMe]

I don't know if this is the right thread to do this in, but I have noticed a few little glitches in a few of the DVD download tracks (not the DC show, but the one from the movie). A pop here, a skip there. Did anyone else hear those, or am I going a bit crazy?

[u2roolz]

Hey Everyone,

 

Well, I love the DVD. But I do share some critiques that people have bravely shared with us. I do feel that they could have went further with their theme and it sort of went away. As someone who has tried to document his friend's musical career, I realize the difficulty of actually presenting something to be seen and/or consumed.

 

I'll talk about this really quick. I got my degree in film and had a documentary class. I decided to interview my musician friend and film him live which I had been doing for awhile. Well long story short the documentary is pretty rough. This was due to me not fleshing out the questions enough and not getting enough interview footage. So it became 95% performance footage and a few sound bites here and there. So it's not really a documentary and not fully a performance video.

 

I get the feeling that maybe Canty & Green wound up with little interview footage. Or they were so wrapped up in making sure they filmed the performances that they spent less time interviewing the band. I probably should read the interview that was done with Canty & Rock and Roll Ghost. Sorry don't recall your VC name. But it looks like that the documentary crew was there waiting for the band to show up and we see the tour bus pull up a few times. But than there's footage from the tour bus. I don't know. I will say that I am pleased that there isn't any sound bites or cross cutting over performance footage. I'll admit the 2nd time I watched it, I skipped over the interview stuff.

 

Overall, I do feel that something special could have been brought forth from more digging into their theme. But I still think the performances are amazing, even if the editing is off as someone stated on here earlier. Although, their editing and the performance of Via Chicago, I think, is the single best synthesis of this whole DVD. I do think that they got lucky with their coverage with that song so they were able to use great angles and shots. I feel bad criticizing their work, but that's what happens when it becomes everyone's from now on.

 

Once again I know we are all grateful to have such an official item to play as/when we choose. And the band being beyond generous for the special bonus downloads. I guess we're left to play this disc how we choose to as well.

 

Thanks,

 

Kristofor

 

PS The sound is fucking amazing too.

PPS Also, I have a film school buddy/Wilco fan who almost got to work on the sound aspect of this DVD last August in LA. He didn't get the gig.

[!goose!]

did anyone enjoy the extras more than the film itself? i did.

[u2roolz]

!goose!,

 

I guess I did, since I skipped over the interview portions the second time around.

That's pretty much what's different about the extras - just a simple black fade for a second.

 

But to answer your question more seriously. I'm not sure. I think both groups of songs are tough to pick which I enjoyed better.

But I did like not having to worry about pushing the menu button.

 

Kristofor

[u2roolz]

Hey,

 

Quick thought that I forgot to mention. Did anyone like the fact that Canty & Green shook up the songs enough so that we didn't know what was coming?

I mean, I know we have the songs in front of us. But it was nice to hear certain songs separated from where they usually are in concert.

 

I feel bad for those few people who are casual Wilco fans and who don't know about VC or a typical setlist. So after this dvd convinces those people to check out Wilco live, how many of them will head for the doors once War On War finishes thinking that that's the last song? Ha. Or thinks that Tweedy was pissed in Alabama and left after doing just Impossible Germany.

 

I'm sure we have our stories about having those old official concert videos that are excerpts of a complete show. As a young boy around 13, I remember thinking it was odd that U2's Under A Blood Red Sky video had only like 10 songs and began with relative unknown Surrender.

 

Kristofor

[Tanner]

In my opinion, the biggest flaw of the film is in the coverage. The filmmakers mentioned that they had 8 cameramen, though it seems like they really weren't directed properly: in several cases, it feels like everyone is going for the interesting, off kilter shot, which is wonderful in moderation, but not when it detracts from getting a full sense of the concert. The few wide shots or balcony overheads (The Ryman) are a welcomed relief from a claustrophobia that seems more accidental than deliberate.

 

Good examples of them shifting the shot during cathartic moments: "Says I haven't gone to far," and when the band comes in together after Nels' solo during Impossible Germany. These are powerful moments that camera fails to fully capture. I think in both cases the shot shifted to close ups of Glenn. I want to see Jeff wail out an epic line, not some shot of Glenn's cymbal... Also, it struck me as strange to not include a picture of Jeff inside the case, not that it matters. The above complaints are true; as much as I enjoyed the movie (I've watched it 3 times already), I am regretfully disappointed. Sooo, when does the next film about Wilco come out? Ha!

[shabba rich]

I was under the impression that it was a live concert film. At least that's how it was advertised on the Wilco website. It even reads "Wilco live" on the cover of the DVD so I wasn't expecting an Oscar caliber documentary on the Walmartization of America or an in depth story on the disappearance of small town life or even much insight into a rock band's creative process. I was expecting to see live concert footage and this film delivers that in spades. I am grateful to Wilco for allowing this film to be made. It captures a great american band in it's prime.

 

I haven't seen the movie yet, but yeah, I'm having trouble understanding the argument that they should have focused on one or more "narrative themes". Spending the whole 90 minutes talking about one issue would be inescapably pretentious, and quite likely repetitive and deathly boring. How much more can the lads say about the disappearance of small town life other than they're concerned about it? Would people rather have them cite Dept. of Commerce statistics?

 

Clearly this band has a lot of things to say, and there's nothing wrong with that. Gimme that delicious concert footage for my dinner, and for dessert I'll take a pastry tray of any little nuggets these guys see fit to share. Sounds like a feast.

[johnes]

For 420 me and some friends are gonna smoke then come back to my house and watch the dvd, they will be seeing it for the first time.

[LouieB]

I was another one left a bit disappointed in the film as a whole. Concert/documentary combo films can, and have worked in the past. Unfortunately this one lacked any real insight into the creative minds of the band, opting more for tiny soundbites and minor backstage moments. Fun to watch, but would've been better as extras, and not part of the main feature.

 

Another thing I wasn't too impressed with was the way the band was shot in concert: the framing and angles used was less than stellar for a lot of it. The 3 ACL broadcasts--though maybe not as rich with dark club atmospherics as the shows used in the film--are better shot, and more cohesive documents of the band playing live in my opinion.

 

Overall I enjoyed it and am happy the band put it out, but, I would definitely put it below IATTBYH and Sunken Treasure Live.

I passed on critiqueing the actual filming. I don't think it was too bad all in all, since capturing a band in a concert is tough (I have been involved in this kind of thing a few times....), so really I won't go there. I am going to help shoot a video of the Bottle Rockets in a couple weeks...with Whiskey Bender productions. I can't wait.

 

I haven't seen the movie yet, but yeah, I'm having trouble understanding the argument that they should have focused on one or more "narrative themes". Spending the whole 90 minutes talking about one issue would be inescapably pretentious, and quite likely repetitive and deathly boring. How much more can the lads say about the disappearance of small town life other than they're concerned about it? Would people rather have them cite Dept. of Commerce statistics?

 

Clearly this band has a lot of things to say, and there's nothing wrong with that. Gimme that delicious concert footage for my dinner, and for dessert I'll take a pastry tray of any little nuggets these guys see fit to share. Sounds like a feast.

Well shabba, there is plenty of concert footage, but a focused narrative would have been okay, but with the way it is cut, it comes out as more pretentious than not. This is a good issue but as I pointed out the band didn't really play small towns or anything, unless you count Tulsa OK and Montgomery, AL small towns. Certainly Washington DC and Nashville TN are not small towns and New Orleans certainly has other issues that can always be interesting. Perhaps they should not have spent ANY time on any narrative at all and just gone with minimal conversation with the band and put in more songs. Actually I like hearing from the band myself, but on topics that illuminate the career of the band.

 

By the way, why didn't they include when Pat played Tipitinas?? Who did he play with, what were the circumstances. That's also interesting and was dropped.

 

I have not watched the extras yet.

 

LouieB

[Bhickman]

Like I said elsewhere, I could watch a 6 hour documentary of just interviews with these guys. I loved what Brendan and Christoph did with the film. It's a concert film - it's what it was always supposed to be. The interviews came out organically from what I understand and fit the narrative of a band on tour. I'm not sure what the critique is here...

 

But I would also welcome another Sam Jones style documentary on these guys, too. But I don't know if something like that will every happen again.

[nodep5]

Pleasantly suprised. Finally watched last night and i really enjoyed it. Being a Wilco fan from the get go, I can honestly say that my sense of anticipation/excitement for this type of thing is nowhere to the levels reached say circa 1996. Maybe that has nothing to do with Wilco, maybe it is growing older, having different priorities beside trying not to fall asleep at class after driving 3 hours to see Wilco play. Either way, this DVD (of all things) has reminded me why I love this band more than any other music related thing in the world. Sometimes I will get focused on other music, Neil Young, Ryan Adams, etc and I will think that Wilco is my favorite band, but it doesn't seem as emotionally provoking as it use to. I can say that I reconnected with that watching Ashes. I realize that we are all probably too into this band to have perspective on exactly how important (if that is the word) they are musically. I was watching and thinking, "no one sounds like this". It was probably during "Side with the Seeds". I'm thinking this song is a standard white boy R & B and then, plow, that crazy guitar segment. Only Wilco. They are truly unique and I think Jeff will always have that Midwestern charm thing going where he can be serious but just when you are thinking pretenious, he breaks it down with the deprecation. Anyway, I could go on, but I just wanted to say that for a fan who doesn't usually get off on the whole live concert CD and DVD thing, I found this one to be a really nice ride.

[lamradio]

I too just watched it for the first time last night.

 

After reading the criticizing reviews, I tried really really hard to find these flaws.. I never could find them.. The movie was excellent.. The camera work and especially the sound. I have a decent home theater system, I set the options on 5.1, and wow.. By far the best sounding music DVD I have ever heard.

 

I also liked how there were several John interviews. I've only heard him talk a couple times here and there in previous video's, and it was nice to finally hear him share his thoughts. It was also neat to hear Jeff say that they could absorb another change in the line-up, as long as it's not John.

 

Favorite song from the DVD: Kingpin. They blew the roof off Tipitina's with that one.

[watch me fall]

I still haven't seen it or read any of the reviews. Tonight's the night...well if I can get packed and get myself together at a decent hour.

[nodep5]

All of this talk about the Movie and not holding a cohesive plot theme. I don't know, it was a Concert film and maybe the producers overreache a little. I think It could have just been promoted as a film about Wilco an American Touring Band. I thought I was going to be annoyed by this dying American thread, but it was done tastefully, not heavy handed, everything that was discussed was more or less factual. It was an amazingly sounding pleasant piece of viewing in my mind. For those wanting Don't Look Back I think this band had that moment in time snap shot documentary with IATTBYH. Anyway, for what this is, I would proudly show anyone interested in Wilco this DVD.

[MattZ]

For those lamenting the brief stops at various venues, when I saw the film in NYC, the directors were there. Canty said that one of the hard things about making a concert documentary is "viewer fatigue." And that they made a real effort to break up the flow of the movie by bringing it down and then up again to keep the viewer engaged. Except for the hardest of hardcore Wilco fans that's something that made a lot of sense to me.

 

So, if you were bummed that you only got a couple of songs at Cain's, that could be the reason. Same with some of the (arguably) less explored themes of the movie. The reason they weren't more fully explored is because the goal of the movie was to showcase the band live. I can understand why some people think there were some loose ends in the narrative, but I do think the goal of the movie was realized.

 

And frankly, I am surprised that some viewers didn't notice that the opening song was at soundcheck, or that the way the scene was editted and shot wasn't a beautiful, if not understated, homage to Cain's and the musicians that came before him. The opening scene was probably the highlight of the movie for me.

[Guest Speed Racer]

I ordered mine 3-18 and it's *supposed* to get her Monday. It is annoying. I'm sorry 1) that people are having some negative responses about the DVD, 2) that I read them before I watched it myself and 3) I didn't watch it before I read it because they wouldn't send me my DVD when they said it would. And I guess I shouldn't have read the comments.

 

Hopefully I'll get over the surlies before I watch it.

 

At least you received notice that yours shipped! Mine is still 'processing.' I'm sending them daily nastygrams until I receive the package. An excerpt from today's 'gram:

 

"I was under the impression that a pre-order was an order that would ship 'pre-ceding' the release date (or on the release date, which is lame but fine). Did you think I was pre-ordering as in, 'pre-ceding my death'? 'Pre-ceding the apocalypse'? 'Pre-ceding the next presidential election'?"

[Rusty Shackleford]

So, if you were bummed that you only got a couple of songs at Cain's, that could be the reason. Same with some of the (arguably) less explored themes of the movie. The reason they weren't more fully explored is because the goal of the movie was to showcase the band live. I can understand why some people think there were some loose ends in the narrative, but I do think the goal of the movie was realized.

 

And frankly, I am surprised that some viewers didn't notice that the opening song was at soundcheck, or that the way the scene was editted and shot wasn't a beautiful, if not understated, homage to Cain's and the musicians that came before him. The opening scene was probably the highlight of the movie for me.

 

I understand why they didn't explore all of the potential narrative threads they raised, and I don't think anyone is arguing that they should have fleshed all of them out. LouieB's complaint, as I understand it, is that they tease up several threads and then go nowhere with them. I tend to agree with him.

 

It's not that they should have spent 45 minutes talking about small towns, or the hardships of touring, or the relationships among the band members, etc., etc. It's more that if you're going to bring a thread up, you should follow through on it. Instead they brought up lots of possibly fascinating topics, then left them hanging. It would have been better to choose only a few narratives and then focus on them.

 

My guess, judging from the interviews I've read with the filmmakers, is that they intended to do more of a straight concert film with a little of background footage, along the lines of "Sunken Treasure," but subsequently decided that the background footage was interesting enough to bring more to the forefront. Unfortunately, because they didn't plan their narrative from the beginning, they had a hard time coming up with a coherent story from their footage. Again, just a guess, but it doesn't look to me that they really plotted this thing out from the start.

 

I do love the look, sound, and overall feel of the film. The opening sequence on the Ashes soundcheck and inside of Cain's was indeed awesome, but then the rest of the movie didn't really live up to it.

[u2roolz]

Hey Everyone,

 

Well, I slept on something that occurred to me last night about the interviews. It stemmed from popping in a Lost bonus disc. Sunday nights are pretty boring, so pretty much anything can go into the player. Anyways, I watched a little bonus feature about The Guns On Lost. And you know what it made sense. It made sense because the documentary film crew must have been feeding the actor's about who had what gun and so on. So me as a viewer understood where a gun that showed up in Season 1 wound up in Season 4. But because of this it felt kind of manufactured and phony, even it if was sarcastic.

 

So the point I am about to make is something someone mentioned that crossed my mind. I think the directors didn't ask the band any questions that they wanted to craft into a particular story. They just kind of wound up with whatever interview footage they got and that was it. Organic. Otherwise, it may have sounded too scripted. While some us have may have liked the prodding approach, I kind of think we're better off with what we have in our hands.

 

Kristofor

[Three dollars and 63 cents]

I saw it in a theater here last night, and I definitely need to watch it again once I get my DVD to be able to comment on it fully, but it seemed to me at times it wasn't quite sure what it wanted to be. Undeniably, though, I think it does capture a "slice of life" of Wilco circa February and March 2008, and it will stand the test of time for that. Just like with Greg Kot's book, I think it does what it sets out to do, but with both works I felt like there could've been more.

[IRememberDBoon]

why wont my computer see the dvd on the drive. anyone else played it on their PC??

[LouieB]

I do love the look, sound, and overall feel of the film. The opening sequence on the Ashes soundcheck and inside of Cain's was indeed awesome, but then the rest of the movie didn't really live up to it.

Wilco Live at Cain's could have been a great movie in and of itself, with sound check, concert, talking to fans, exploring issues in American music (Jeff's comment about Hank Williams watching his songs chart the same way Madonna does was absolutely spot on....), talking about cool old American shit, etc. It would have saved the directors from having to go on the road and would have made the fans just as happy, not to mention that the feel of Cains was far better than any of the other venues except the Ryman, which of course pretty much trumps every other venue one can think of, but was filmed far better by Johnathan Demme very recently. (Heart of Gold is such a great movie, both a concert, an album, and has plenty of interview time with the principal musicians talking about stuff regarding the performance; not hardly a frame that is not important to the movie....beautifully done.)

 

I am certain John plays Jeff's comments about him every day. Must be nice to have that kind of job security in this economy. But despite all that, the one thing this movie shows conclusively is that the one member Jeff can't and shouldn't live without is Glenn Kotche. What he does for Wilco is beyond words in my opinion.

 

LouieB